Simple question - open limping in pf with super calling station?

[JackAll]

I don't limp in ever.

But there was a guy on my table the other day who was vpip 90 and basically never folded pf or flop - ever. Then called turn with gutshot or bottum pair chasing 2pr, etc.

If we have sc's/ssc's/AXs/low pairs, is it worth open limping?
Obv we are basically not c-betting here ever, so this seems like a waste of money to raise pf since we can't even semi-bluff with draws.

If open limping is ok, then and if people limp behind you, I think position doesn't matter since we aren't able to semi bluffdraws. So open limping from even UTG seems fine.

Other than open limping, I think the other choice is folding it since raising and c-betting seems gay.

Thoughts?

[DrMagic]

You raise to isolate the fish. You limp in and you let other players have the chance at taking his money

[wuwei]

1. Who do you expect to play better after the flop, you or the 90% VP$IP guy?

If the answer is you, move on to question 2.

2. Would you rather play more small multiway pots or bigger HU pots with the 90% guy?

If the answer is bigger HU pots, keep raising.

Don't c-bet every hand... bet when you flop something. This isn't rocket science.

[JackAll]

[ QUOTE ]
1. Who do you expect to play better after the flop, you or the 90% VP$IP guy?

If the answer is you, move on to question 2.

2. Would you rather play more small multiway pots or bigger HU pots with the 90% guy?

If the answer is bigger HU pots, keep raising.

Don't c-bet every hand... bet when you flop something. This isn't rocket science.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is basically never folding. So say I raise pf with 67s and flop is any flush draw (not combo draw). He is never folding flop and seldom folding turn. So semi-bluffing betting flop or turn is spewing money and you hit 1/5 times on turn (or same on river if u miss turn). So there is zero value in betting here.

I don't think it's worth betting to build a pot here unless we are willing to get our whole stack in with 3-barelling.

[PokerFink]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't c-bet every hand... bet when you flop something. This isn't rocket science.

[/ QUOTE ]

Duh. Raise to isolate and just give up when you miss. Also try using the turn cbet, those tend to work ok against these types of villians.

This also gives you a great image for the rest of the table who are paying attention, "omg this fish only bets when he has something I can totally outplay him."

[JackAll]

Ok, all your answers suck like a hooker trying to earn bread and water money.

You three are a bunch of tools. Really. TOOLS.

sc's/ssc's/AXs/low pairs all play well in a family pot. So raising to isolate is not a great idea unless you can make the fish fold and steal from him. With a guy like this villain who NEVER FOLDS and us hitting our hands so seldom - raising to isolate is rediculous.

I already explained that he doesn't just call a bit too much. I said he NEVER FOLDS pf, flop, and seldom on turn (calling with gutshots and bottum pair)



I'm still open to a good suggestions here.

Someone who learnt to use their brain please answer with something other than 'ooh someone once said to isolate anyone who is in the broad category of fish'. Others please shut up.


Edit: Sorry, getting fed up with tools and turned into a poo-flinging monkey.

[callme]

Raising to isolate is just not gonna work efficently in these spots since the other players catch up quite fast what you try to do and just call your raises (in hope to stack this guy) esp. when OOP. I would lower my PF raises significantly to really strong hands (the fish is gonna call anyway) and limp with other hands and if somebody else decides to raise, just check if you have the odds to call. Also try to figure out what kind of raises he calls PF or if he even calls reraises with his range. If you figured that out you simply can wait for big hands and raise huge if it hits you PF. If you get dealt SC´s/low PP which you want to play and not wanna raise, just limp them, i dont see much wrong with that since you can´t/wont achieve most of the goals of openraising anyways in this particular situation.

Further CBetting against such guys with non-solid hands is just a waste of money. Valuebet solid hands like TPTK++ and dont be afraid to put it all in with it, but just dont waste money without a hand.

[aditya]

Wow, looks like someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed today. Dude, why are you asking if you're just going to reject all the answers and say that limping is best. OK, if you think limping is best, then go ahead and limp. Stop [censored] berating everybody for telling you the right thing to do.

[JackAll]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, looks like someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I just got pissed off at the way so many people just repeat whatever stuff someone shoved down their throats. Some random phrase like "raise to isolate the fish" might work a lot of the time, but just regurgitating it ad nauseum without even thinking is a better if they don't even respond.

[ QUOTE ]
Dude, why are you asking if you're just going to reject all the answers and say that limping is best. OK, if you think limping is best, then go ahead and limp. Stop [censored] berating everybody for telling you the right thing to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said limping is best. Folding might well be when it is folded to you. All I know is that raising those hands in this situation is clearly not correct.

I was hoping someone might have some useful thought on this that I hadn't realised.

I suspect the solution might be to open limp a few times, and if the people in position to you don't raise and steal you limp all the time, keep doing that, else just fold it out pf. In any case, raising pf in this situation with those hands is way off the mark.

[DrMagic]

You should raise to isolate almost every decent hand, most players won't adjust efficiently and by the time they do you have taken all of the fishes money. You just want to play pots with a guy that bad and you don't want anyone else to. This is important. Limping in is bad, as you'll prob let someone else isolate the fish then.