10NL: should I have just led here?

SlickVic · #1 08-19-2007, 05:32 PM

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($12.65)
Button ($22.65)
SB ($12.55)
BB ($25.60)
UTG ($6.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.3, Button raises to $1.05, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $2.25, Hero raises to $6, Button raises to $23.85 (All-In), Hero calls $5.60 (All-In).

Turn: ($25.45) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($25.45) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $25.45

Villain is 53/21/5, at the time I didn't think he would reraise with a deuce. Pre-flop I was going to call then shut down if I missed the flop, because given his stats he could have had anything.

On the flop, I thought about leading, but he could easily have had a pocket pair and I thought that since I have been c-betting the last few hands he would not respect it. So I went for the check-raise, but now that I think about it I maybe have developed FPS and i'm not sure how much of his range I really beat and the check raise really left me in the dark. Should I have just led then fold to a reraise? Am I overthinking NL10? Help/comments are definitely appreciated.

DaycareInferno · #2 08-19-2007, 05:40 PM

i don't really like anything you did in this hand other than your opening bet.

i fold to the 3bet with a hand like kj. if i a guy is picking on me so much that its profitable to 4bet with anything, then i'll do that before i'll call with this hand.

on the flop, you think he will call you with a lower pp. if you think that's a big part of his range, and you think he calls you with it, why would that stop you from betting? i guess the line you took makes sense, since you wanted to get all your money in against this guy, but i don't know why you want to get all your money in here.

stickdude · #3 08-19-2007, 06:30 PM

Definitely fold pre-flop to the 3-bet. That's just not a strong enough hand to play OOP against a preflop 3-bettor.

shark_fishin · #4 08-19-2007, 07:27 PM

lead, c/r puts more money in the pot and gives you the same information

oh and ofcourse fold to 3bet pre [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

nanamar05 · #5 08-19-2007, 07:33 PM

fold preflop......definitely fold 3x bet allin on flop.

Sniiii · #6 08-19-2007, 07:42 PM

Horribly played - sorry. Your raise PF is ok, calling a 3bet is not ok with KJ. Your whole flop play is horrible.

mojack · #7 08-19-2007, 08:18 PM

So it appears from the responses here that calling either re-raise here is horrible...and I realize KJs isn't the ultimate go to battle hand (not one I call a intial raise with), but I'm having a bit of trouble with auto folding to this opponent

Yes, its certainly a difficult spot and its screaming overpair. My trouble is how do we avoid being complete run over by an opponent like this directly to our left.

If he rarely 3bets, I get it...fold. What if he does? So many players at this level with stats like these are just plain awful and are throwing money away.

So, if we fold...what hands can we play against this opponent that hold up to pressure? Only the top in our range? And on the flop, what must we hit to stand up?

If the stats are true, he's very loose and very agressive and it seems to me that he will run us over, unless the poker gods give us the nuts most hands. I know they won't so I'd like to know how we fight back.

SlickVic · #8 08-19-2007, 08:20 PM

Thanks guys for the input and after thinking about it you're all right this was a clear fold preflop. This is what happens after you come back from a long break of not playing lol.

fwiw, he had TT and of course spiked one on the river FTL

mojack · #9 08-19-2007, 08:33 PM

So my guess of his using aggression to over-run the table has some merit, or the villain's need to throw his money away. So he spiked the river and the hero lost...I guess we knew the ultimate outcome by the fact that the hand was submitted.

But, does knowing that most hands submitted here were lost by the poster, condition the responses to say FOLD? I sometimes suspect that being the nit makes it easier to respond. Or is it that those who play at levels above NL10 not see this kind of play?

SlickVic · #10 08-19-2007, 08:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So it appears from the responses here that calling either re-raise here is horrible...and I realize KJs isn't the ultimate go to battle hand (not one I call a intial raise with), but I'm having a bit of trouble with auto folding to this opponent

Yes, its certainly a difficult spot and its screaming overpair. My trouble is how do we avoid being complete run over by an opponent like this directly to our left.

If he rarely 3bets, I get it...fold. What if he does? So many players at this level with stats like these are just plain awful and are throwing money away.

So, if we fold...what hands can we play against this opponent that hold up to pressure? Only the top in our range? And on the flop, what must we hit to stand up?

If the stats are true, he's very loose and very agressive and it seems to me that he will run us over, unless the poker gods give us the nuts most hands. I know they won't so I'd like to know how we fight back.

[/ QUOTE ]

fwiw he has been aggressive pre-flop with a lot of his hands after looking at the PT data something I am not used to noticing again because it's been a while since I played on-line. Live is good at slowing things down for ya and I was getting used to the pace.

If you want to beat someone like this to our left, I suggest having more patience then I did here. Even tho I thought I was ahead of his range due to his loose play, KJ is still marginal at best, and it's value drops out of position.