Interesting decisions on all streets 25/50NL (TPTK)

teddyFBI · #1 08-18-2007, 08:46 PM

25/50 NL - 10-handed.
Villain, (MP2) has 5K, hero covers.
Villain is somewhat nitty preflop, but an outstanding hand-reader and one of the biggest 25/50NL winners.

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $175, 3 folds, MP2 calls $175, MP3 calls $175, 1 fold, Button calls $175, 2 folds.

 ***All preflop callers are big winners in this game, and I'm not really happy to be OOP vs. any of them, let alone all 3 of them.***

Flop: ($775) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets $625, MP2 raises to $1250, MP3 folds, Button folds, Hero...?

First decision point. Ugly board...my initial reaction was to just fold to the min-raise, which screamed strength in a 4-way pot with an UTG raiser and 2 left to act behind him...anyone find a fold here? I wasn't worried about a set cuz i thought he'd raise more than that to protect, so in the end I told myself it was either JT or just 1 pair, something like KQ or QJ, so I called another $625. Feel free to suggest a fold here though. I'm assuming no one sees value in a re-raise.

Turn: ($3275) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

***pretty standard check here, I think, and i'm happy to have it checked behind***

River: ($3275) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Hero???
(pot is 3,275 and villain has $3,575 behind -- hero covers)

klownage · #2 08-18-2007, 08:52 PM

I think bet/fold and c/c are both viable depending on your read.

recallme · #3 08-18-2007, 08:55 PM

I like b/f here. He will c many Q behind here that you beat.

PartyGirlUK · #4 08-18-2007, 08:58 PM

Why did you bet the flop??

teddyFBI · #5 08-18-2007, 08:59 PM

Basically the lines that crossed my mind for river are, in no particular order:

1) Shove

2) Bet $1,200 planning to call a shove

3) Bet $1,200 planning to fold to a shove

4) Check planning to fold to a shove

5) Check planning to call a shove (or smaller bet)

Thoughts...?
(remembering that villain is outstanding post-flop handreader)

teddyFBI · #6 08-18-2007, 09:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you bet the flop??

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I considered just checking, but I don't think betting 3/4-pot is terrible -- letting it get checked through would be bad, and if i checked I'd have absolutely no info about what a bet from one of my opponents meant, esp the last-to-act guy.

Kirkrrr · #7 08-18-2007, 09:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why did you bet the flop??

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I considered just checking, but I don't think betting 3/4-pot is terrible -- letting it get checked through would be bad, and if i checked I'd have absolutely no info about what a bet from one of my opponents meant, esp the last-to-act guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not betting this flop is bad. Yes our hand is very vulnerable but you're representing a lot of strength with a c-bet into 3 opponents after an UTG raise so you won't get [censored] with all that often there, imo.

I see no value in a river bet at all... you might get the other AQ off a chop but that's about it. What good player ever calls there with worse given the action so far? what's he supposed to put you on, AK? JJ? You might try to get tricky and bet like one-third pot and entice a raise, which then you're committed to calling so that's probably not the greatest option either.

In short I don't see you getting a lot more value in this hand, so just c/c and move on.

Kirk

teddyFBI · #8 08-18-2007, 09:44 PM

So u call a PSB shove if u check to him on river?

Equal · #9 08-18-2007, 09:58 PM

Just think of these hands and if you'd raise a UTG pf raiser with 4 way, with two players to act behind you: KQ/QJ/QT, JJ, TT, 76 with backdoor flush draw...

Easy fold to the flop raise IMO.

Kirkrrr · #10 08-18-2007, 10:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So u call a PSB shove if u check to him on river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if he's good, no - he should know his line will look suspicious after the turn check and he's probably putting you on an overpair at that point, so a shove is probably expected to get called. But I'd call getting 3:1 or more. The most obvious rebuttal to that logic is also exactly why it works.

Kirk