live 6/12, A3s SB flops middle pair + bdfd

mntndrew · #1 08-16-2007, 05:13 PM

Hero dealt A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the SB. Four limpers, Hero completes, BB checks.

[5+ SB]: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Checked to BN, who bets.

BN is moderately TAGgy, will play a pretty wide range on the BN and will fire with a wide range when checked to. A couple of somewhat aggressive players that checked likely totally whiffed, and a couple of very passive players remaining could have anything that isn't 54.

Do we want a piece of this?

Fnord · #2 08-16-2007, 05:21 PM

I might raise and bet until he plays back if I don't think the limpers will keep us honest. If the limpers aren't likely to fold, then I would just call.

Hyperrrprank · #3 08-16-2007, 05:38 PM

I'd peel one here planning on c/r any spade, Ace, 3, or 4 on the turn.

mntndrew · #4 08-16-2007, 06:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd peel one here planning on c/r any spade, Ace, 3, or 4 on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

As long as there are multiple callers behind when you call the flop bet, I don't understand c/r'ing a turn 4. If it gets checked to the BN, he is betting like never without a 5 because he's not an idiot and lots of live players love to slowplay hands. If an earlier position player bets into a field of at least 2 opponents, I wouldn't want to try to get cute here either.

I'm on board with Fnord and want to protect my equity in this hand by raising to force out overs that will undoubtedly peel for a single bet. This seems very similar to the SSHE hand in the intro to flop play where they recommend that the guy holding something like Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] raise when the flop comes J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and the bet comes from his right.

jesse8888 · #5 08-16-2007, 06:18 PM

I'd probably check-raise this and bet the turn regardless of what comes. If you get re-raised on the flop, a call is in order i believe.

atcjhall · #6 08-16-2007, 08:35 PM

grunch---definitely raising flop, and betting turn. I would play it like the nuts. If BN plays back, c/c it down. Don't think anyone has an A (no PFR by agressives, and passives aren't here with a 2,3,or 6 and if they call 2 cold, hooray.)

mntndrew · #7 08-16-2007, 08:53 PM

OK, raise looks popular here, and it's my action.

Extremely loose passive player cold calls 2, BN calls but doesn't look happy because we've played together and thinks I don't raise without the goods. Two folds.

Passive MP player could literally have anything, since she has either a gutshot, a pair, or two overcards. She's shown down a hand where she called a flop bet with a backdoor flush draw and two cards on the board higher than her (unpaired) cards.

Turn [~5.5 BB]: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img])

Pretty good card for me, not likely to hit anyone. I bet, MP calls, BN folds. (trivial, I'm assuming, so we'll go to the river)

River [~7.5 BB]: K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Value bet?

BTW, atcjhall, I can't believe c/c'ing down to the river UI is right if it gets 3-bet on the flop by the BN.

KitCloudkicker · #8 08-16-2007, 08:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
value bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

only if you hate money.

i still also am not sold on the flop CR into a large field.

Fnord · #9 08-16-2007, 09:08 PM

River is opponent dependent. You might have a chance to bluff, but it's probably hopeless. Check and expect to play show & tell. Checking here wins the pot once in a while, so betting needs to have a higher EV. Against some guys I would even check/call this river.

[ QUOTE ]
i still also am not sold on the flop CR into a large field.

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither am I, but it depends on a bunch of stuff.

atcjhall · #10 08-16-2007, 10:52 PM

upon further reflection, the turn card would certainly affect my c/c decision. If BN is 3 betting 77,88,99 (since no pf raise I don't think any higher pr is likely) they aren't going to like any big cards, but they may still bet out. I would even consider a c/r if that happened. Agreed, a 3 bet could slow me down depending on the turn. That 8 would feel very nasty to me, since I'm putting BN on middle cards, not to mention the FD that's (slightly) possible.