What to do here?

[RapidEvolution]

I'm really getting tired of situations like this, but I feel like if I always fold to a 3-flush on the board, it's a waste.

$1,000 Guarantee SnG

Blinds are 200/400, antes 50
Hero is UTG+1 ($10,705)

UTG ($7,690) calls
Hero calls [As, Jc]
MP1 ($10,380) folds
MP2 ($12,385) calls
MP3 ($16,891) calls
CO ($44,765) folds
BUT ($11,250) folds
SB ($9,535) completes
BB ($47,274) Checks

FLOP [Ah, 2s, 3h] (Pot=$2850)

SB checks
BB checks
UTG checks
Hero bets $2000
MP1 calls
MP2 calls
Others fold

TURN [Jh] (pot=$8,850)

Hero? (results in white)
<font color="white">

Hero pushes all in ($8,255)
MP1 pushes all in ($9,935)
MP2 folds

MP1 shows [10h, 7h]
MP1 wins pot ($25,360)
</font>

I feel like this is either a shove or a c/fold. With one other person in here, I think it's an easy push...but with 2, I'm uncertain.


I'll also mention that this is a massive freeroll (5000 entrants) with cash payout to top 100 and 370 people are left. (If this matters) I'm waiting on a deposit to clear on stars and plan on doing the $1.00 SnG's to build bankroll up from $50. Can anyone tell what the level of play is like compared to freerolls? (I feel like such a noob asking about this lol) As always thanks for reading and any advice you can offer!!

[tarheeljks]

donks will be donks, esp in free rolls. anyway, your flop bet could have stood to be bigger. shoving here is very bad, you will only get called by better.

[kayaker]

[ QUOTE ]
donks will be donks, esp in free rolls. anyway, your flop bet could have stood to be bigger. shoving here is very bad, you will only get called by better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with one part of your comment. In these things, you may well get called by someone with a 4-flush. I doubt it's enough of the time to make it worthwhile, though. C/F is the right move on the turn here.

And to the OP, definitely bet more on the flop. You've got five left to act behind you and you don't want ANY of them getting odds to call you. I'd put 3.5 - 4k in on the flop to try and push them all out.

[sputum]

One thing to think about (no tourney expert though [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img])

You charged him 2 to win 13 (15 thanks to MP2) and he's only 5-1 against. Then you push when he hits. His preflop is a little funky but he paid $0 to enter.
Freerolls are great practice but 5000 entrants and $1k means 20 cents for the average player (approx) and even if you're ten times as good EV-wise (for the hell of it) you are looking at $2. That will include a lot of OOTM places for each FT.
I don't know about the $1 SNG but the mere fact you are looking to improve suggests you should fare well [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[SmartBugger]

I don't like how you limped in. I understand your under-the-gun, but in tournaments... you got to be aggressive. If you do limp in, prepare to let go of a hand because you don't know where you are (unless you got some read). Now you made a healthy raise .... but the turn card was a nightmare. You pushed, hopping you are the best but knowing there is a possibility that he hit his flush. Remember, there was 4 people in the pot.... either someone been slow playing a set or been chasing a flush. Its unlikely that anyone would "trap" with ace high.


You should have folded... but I understand, that 2k bet made you short on money.

[SmartBugger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
donks will be donks, esp in free rolls. anyway, your flop bet could have stood to be bigger. shoving here is very bad, you will only get called by better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with one part of your comment. In these things, you may well get called by someone with a 4-flush. I doubt it's enough of the time to make it worthwhile, though. C/F is the right move on the turn here.

And to the OP, definitely bet more on the flop. You've got five left to act behind you and you don't want ANY of them getting odds to call you. I'd put 3.5 - 4k in on the flop to try and push them all out.

[/ QUOTE ]



No offense, but that is a very bad idea. His raise was healthy. The only thing that raising more would do is pot-commit you and make sure you couldn't get away from a monster of a hand. Sometimes you got to let good hands go.

[choccypie]

AJo UTG isn't the best hand to raise with, but in a freeroll vs a tank of donks, you need to raise to drive out hands like any 2 suited cards. You can get away with limping in a cash game but tourneys are where you have to be aggressive.

I think the flop was a better time to push ai rather than the turn, as no one could possibly have a flush on the flop, and by going ai you're making their call a huge mistake, which is what you want them to make consistently in the long run.

[RapidEvolution]

I'm just now starting to adjust to small differences between cash games and tournies in terms of aggression factor. I understand it in theory (There's a bigger need to accumulate chips faster since the blinds are going up all the time), but I'm seeing a real difference now that I'm playing ring games.

I remember my thinking when I made this move on the turn (which I now see as wrong, but I'll share it anyway) [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

1) With top 2 pair on the turn, I figured I had the best hand (unless someone had exactly 2 hearts). If someone had a set, I think I would've been raised on the flop.

2) I might be able to get someone with top pair or lower 2 pair, or possibly one heart (I have to figure that J-2, J-3 are possibilities here, given the crap I've seen shown down) to come along and lose their money.

3) Even if there IS a flush out there already, I've got some outs (2 jacks, 2 aces, [for a full house] and possibly the other hearts [if no one has the K or Q].


Looking back, I think reason 3 is more an argument for checking and seeing what kind of action happens on the turn. Someone may check thinking they're being sneaky, or make a smaller bet that I could call given the implied odds.

Ideas on that line as opposed to the one I took?

[Dumb Fish x]

As you are probably aware, the situation could have been avoided with a preflop raise which is possibly (?) the correct move with AJ.

[kayaker]

[ QUOTE ]
No offense, but that is a very bad idea. His raise was healthy. The only thing that raising more would do is pot-commit you and make sure you couldn't get away from a monster of a hand. Sometimes you got to let good hands go.

[/ QUOTE ]

None taken. This is the beginner forum and discussion like this help everyone to improve. However, I don't agree that you'd be committed here. Yes, your SPR is less than 1. But with ~7k left after the PF call and 3k on the flop, I think you CAN get away from this hand once the third heart comes. Your M would still be around 12, so you're not going to be in Push-or-Fold mode yet.

I see only one other move, and that's to check. As someone else is liable to bet out, you're still putting the money in or you're folding the best hand.

Betting anything less than 3k gives MP1 odds to call you. If he's not a total donk, he'll fold his FD there and you take it down.

Short of putting out a bet and hoping either no heart comes or you take it down on the flop, the only other good scenario is for everyone to check behind. As I don't like playing scared, I'd rather risk 1/3 of my stack to take this pot down immediately. And if I get called, I feel like I can still get away from it when he makes it clear he caught his flush.

On the turn, it is unfortunate that the one card in the deck drops that makes folding here a difficult decision. Could I get away from the hand at this point? Difficult to say. You've got two pair, but you're reasonably sure MP1 hit his flush. If you think he's bluffing often enough you can think about calling his push, but 2.5-1 pot odds are probably not going to be enough to call a 4-outer.