25NL: Top Set on coordinated board

[Tiburon]

This is my first session of NL as I'm trying to learn after about 2 years of playing low limit. How should I react to his flop c/r, especially considering that UTG+1 is likely on the draw? Not enough hands played for stats to be worth anything.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 8 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $6.45
BB: $51.00
UTG: $31.35
UTG+1: $14.40
MP1: $4.95
Hero (MP2): $21.15
CO: $23.70
BTN: $72.20

Preflop: Hero is dealt T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (8 Players)
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.25, MP1 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $0.85</font>, 3 folds, BB calls $0.60, UTG+1 calls $0.60

Flop: ($2.65) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $1.50</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $5.00</font>, UTG+1 calls $5.00, <font color="red">Hero ???</font>

[jstill]

I wouldnt automatically assume UTG+1 is drawing tbh, but u shouldnt give him odds to continue (or BB if hes semi bluffing).

Getting it in when ur behind to QJ J7 76 is still +EV becuz of the overlay in the pot, and when ur ahead ur equity is crushing so vs both players ranges ur in great shape to 3bet.

An argument sometimes comes to my mind to wait for a safe turn but that is a double edge sword since then ur further behind if u dont improve vs his better hands and ur odds dont get much better vs his made hands that arent redrawing. Tough to say which part of his range is larger worse made hands or better, but I havent seen much in NL strategy about waiting for safe cards (since u can control the betting size unlike in limit)and this isnt a great spot for that idea anyways so Id 3bet now, u can shove with ur stack size now cuz that ll be about a Pot size raise and raising less but raisng more than a minraise is just awkward and makes it transparent ur stacking off but gives better odds for the moment to JT ect.

[Buzz-cp]

wow with that coldcaller, it is definitely push time.

[gregorio]

I think this is the math. You have about 35% equity against someone who already has the straight. If you push, you're betting $18.80, there is already $14.15 in the pot, and the pot will be $51.75 if one person calls. The $18.80 would be 36% of the pot, so you would be putting in 36% of the pot in hand where you have 35% equity.

So even if someone already has the straight, you're not that bad off. And like jstill said, since their range is larger than QJ J7 76, pushing is +EV, since sometimes they'll fold and sometimes call with a draw or worse made hand.

Also, you bet &lt; 2/3 pot on the flop. With the draw that's out there, I bet at least 3/4 pot.

[djshawk]

I think you can add JJ/QQ to the range on an unknown at 25NL. A lot of players won't 3 bet this preflop but will happily stack off with it if it is an overpair on the flop.

77 is probably played like this too by a lot of people at that limit.

AJ also very plausible.

I think when you add those hands into the range the argument for pushing strengthens.

Preflop I would raise more with 1 limper already in the pot.

[Tiburon]

Thanks for the help guys. I went with a push for many of the reasons that have been stated and I'm glad to hear that the consensus is that its the right play. I was only questioning my play because BB called my shove with J7. But fortunately, UTG+1 also called with a J5 and I filled up on the turn.

Oh and thanks for the advice about the size of my pf and flop raises, this is obviously a major difference from limit which I will work on

[00Snitch]

Are these bet sizes standard? I must seriously be betting the wrong amounts... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I would have raised 5x preflop and bet close to the pot (maybe 90%) on the flop.

PS. Clearly I am noob, so sorry for the silly semi-OT questions.

edit:

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Preflop I would raise more with 1 limper already in the pot.


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Also, you bet &lt; 2/3 pot on the flop. With the draw that's out there, I bet at least 3/4 pot


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OK, I missed that the first time. Is this advice solid?

[jstill]

yeah i didnt comment on the bet sizes, id never bet so small on either street.

flops an easy shove even HU even though I went off on a tangent in my previous reply about a limit &gt; NL transitional type issue/ theory reapplication?