can UK poker profits be taxed?

adi · #1 08-12-2007, 03:46 PM

i am talking to people on another site and trying to convince them gambling is not taxed in the UK but they keep telling me nothing is sure.

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I nabbed this off a taxation site, it's someones opinion (a Tax Consultant) not a fact:

Quote:
In the UK, income tax is not paid on RECREATIONAL gambling profits (whether it be horse race betting, poker playing...or anything of that nature) This is because, as you have already stated in this forum, gamblers could claim tax back on losses.

However, PROFESSIONAL gambling is completely taxable and all profits must be declared to the IR, just as a business must. Currently, there is no threshold to determine what constitutes a professional gambler. These matters are looked at on a case by case basis. There are two main factors which are likely to determine whether you are a professional or merely a recreational gambler.

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i have been active in the online gambling world for years and talked to many pro punters and poker players from the uk, 100% of them said they don't pay taxes and they declare it to the IR as money from gambling, they don't try to hide it from anyone. as long as you can prove the money comes from the an online gambling site you are just fine and that's easy since the bank traces these things. so what is the deal here, can it be taxed or not? are you only taxed if you declare yourself a pro? can you have gambling as your sole income and still be tax free?

davmcg · #2 08-12-2007, 04:11 PM

If a stack of ppl who have researched the subject say one thing and one "tax consultant" states another, you can choose who to believe.

Playing poker is not a trade profession or vocation. Betting on sports is not either. The crucial difference between a bookie and a punter is that the bookie sets up an organisation to offer bets to the punter, the punter successful or not chooses to take these bets. The punter doesn't instigate the activity. Similarly you can choose to play cards or not. There might be a gray area where someone runs a home game and also wins in it, but the position with a casino or online player is as far as I understand it quite clearly non-taxable.

adi · #3 08-12-2007, 04:17 PM

it wasn't just this quote, another tax consultant plus other people were saying similar things. now i know you don't have to pay taxes but i'm starting to wonder what do you declare yourself to be? is it safe to say pro gambler or do you need some kind of cover? i think i read canada has something like this as law, you don't get taxed as long as it isn't your main income. so this is what i'm wondering, what should you do to be as safe as possible and if declaring gambling as your only income is smart.

JPFisher55 · #4 08-12-2007, 04:22 PM

As a US citizen, I'm jealous.

davmcg · #5 08-12-2007, 05:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
it wasn't just this quote, another tax consultant plus other people were saying similar things. now i know you don't have to pay taxes but i'm starting to wonder what do you declare yourself to be? is it safe to say pro gambler or do you need some kind of cover? i think i read canada has something like this as law, you don't get taxed as long as it isn't your main income. so this is what i'm wondering, what should you do to be as safe as possible and if declaring gambling as your only income is smart.

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It isn't income. There is no need for you to declare it or call yourself anything. You should obviously keep records of your winnings, but only to satisfy any enquiries from govt agencies.

A 28 year old poker player who asked what to put on his tax return when he reclaimed savings tax was instructed to put retired...

txbarbarossa · #6 08-13-2007, 01:06 AM

The united states [censored] sucks.

Trivial · #7 08-13-2007, 02:29 PM

Does anyone have any links to longer discussions on this subject? I am certainly aware of anecdotal evidence supporting the claim that UK players do not pay tax on poker winnings but it would ease my mind to read some more involved debate on the matter which could clarify the situation.

In particular since if we are playing on offshore sites they are not themselves paying the 15% remote gaming duty levied on UK operators and thus neither the betting firm nor the punter is being taxed, a case which I am surprised the government is at present permitting to occur. Not that I want them to do anything differently!

davmcg · #8 08-13-2007, 03:38 PM

This is a good article that explains the principles

http://www.thehendonmob.com/Articles...he_taxman.html

adi · #9 08-14-2007, 12:24 PM

i am a romanian citizen and i want to move to the UK next month so i was wondering about my poker pro status there. is there something i have to declare? will anyone ask questions if i'm making 15.000 pounds/month and withdrawing it through e-wallets or bank transfers?

also can you tell me which bank would be best for me in this situation? i mean easiest to open an account as soon as i get there (having no job or address, i'll probably be in a guesthouse the first few weeks). i read hsbc or barclays have accounts you can open just using your EU passport but some people have had problems with them. someone told me i should open an offshore account but i don't know if i can withdraw to them from poker sites if they're not in my country of residence. cheers.

Borys313 · #10 08-16-2007, 06:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i am a romanian citizen and i want to move to the UK next month so i was wondering about my poker pro status there. is there something i have to declare? will anyone ask questions if i'm making 15.000 pounds/month and withdrawing it through e-wallets or bank transfers?

also can you tell me which bank would be best for me in this situation? i mean easiest to open an account as soon as i get there (having no job or address, i'll probably be in a guesthouse the first few weeks). i read hsbc or barclays have accounts you can open just using your EU passport but some people have had problems with them. someone told me i should open an offshore account but i don't know if i can withdraw to them from poker sites if they're not in my country of residence. cheers.

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Yes you can withdraw to banks in any country as long as the bank account is in your name. I talked on the phone to a manager of a big server and he told me that its not a problem.

Offshore bank accounts have usually some minumum initiall deposit that is at least 20K USD + (Barclays Int, HSBC Int) and some requier 50K+.