If you do this stop - Limit

[Mike]

I watched a player who has been playing over ten years do this tonight, not once but three times! It is a costly beginners mistake, and if you do it, you should stop as it bleeds your chips away in the long run. When you get more experience maybe, but until then, save your chips for better hands.

Hero is late to BB with some suited junk like 45h for example. Someone has raised early, but five or six are in the pot in various states, so hero calls hoping for a straight or flush draw, pot odds right?

Flop comes 44x. Hero is all excited because hero now has trips and that is almost as good as the flush or straight draw hero was hoping to flop. Full speed ahead!

Three times I watched hero being shown a full house on the river. Each of the three winners started with a middle to large pocket pair preflop. They see the little pair, but that is all it is, a little pair on the board. Normally anyone with an over pair is not slowing down until the river.

When there are five or more calling raises preflop, they all are not poor players - most of the time.

If you must call preflop with small cards, think about what you want and why. Trips for you, may mean a full house for a more experienced player by the river.

[AKQJ10]

I don't understand what your recommendation is. Check-fold 54s on a 44x flop? Call one bet on the flop but not on the turn?

54s has to think it's the best hand on that flop. A4, 64 (which will likely tie) or a full house are possibilities, but not enough to make me play trips timidly.

If you face resistance, then sure, check-call. Trips-no kicker isn't the nuts. But it would take a lot to get me to fold 54 trips on a dry board.

[Mike]

This is the beginners forum, I am sure you have enough experience to know when to lay a hand down, but I doubt most new players, and obviously some older players do not?

When the opportunity to correctly play small cards arises, it is generally a passive table. Passive tables by nature do not have much if any aggression in the betting patterns. Generally, there is a bet, most call, there is a bet most call. When this occurs there is no way to judge the quality of your hand.

I am suggesting a couple of thoughts. Small cards get new players into trouble. Trips made with small cards are not that great of hand with many players seeing the flop because the paired board reduces the quality of small trips.

With those thoughts in mind, I do not think many new players will not be missing much if they do not play smaller cards until they have more playing time and can discern when to be bold and when to fold.

[DanoMak]

Results oriented thinking?

I'm going to have to completely agree with AKQJ10. Obviously the hero should consider the villian's range when facing aggression, but losing an extra bet with trips hardly seems like a big leak.

[OziBattler]

[ QUOTE ]
Three times I watched hero being shown a full house on the river. Each of the three winners started with a middle to large pocket pair preflop. They see the little pair, but that is all it is, a little pair on the board. Normally anyone with an over pair is not slowing down until the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

are you suggesting that hero folds because he like LDO got 2 outered by a pocket pair?

also what does "Full speed ahead!" mean? perhaps hero should slow down if other players are betting, raising and capping but if you want to make a case about heros poor play then you need to be more specific

[ QUOTE ]
If you must call preflop with small cards, think about what you want and why.

[/ QUOTE ]

as hero I WANT 44x tyvm. if someone has a better kicker or x the congratulations to them but if they have a pocket pair then most of the time it is mo money for me.

mike, perhaps we are missing the context or the point of your post (eg fold preflop?????) so perhaps you should come back and clarify it.

[AKQJ10]

Yeah, I don't think you're getting the point. It's not that trips-small kicker is a marginal hand that veterans can squeeze for a little profit, like TPWK or tens on a jack-high flop. Even in a 10-handed family pot, small trips figure to be a decent favorite. Always check-folding them in a limit game with huge pots would surely be less profitable than always calling them down to the river.

Like DanoMak, you're just being result-oriented and passing it off as grave wisdom for beginners. I've lost a lot of money on occasion with pocket kings versus aces in NLHE; perhaps beginners should fold kings because they're just so hard to play. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[elindauer]

I think it's pretty obvious but since this is the beginners forum I think I should say: this is really bad advice.

I think your intentions are good, but telling beginners to fold small suited cards in the big blind getting 11 or 13:1 is definitely not helping them. Hinting that folding trips in such a pot may be right, or that trips are frequently beaten is also misleading.

Small suited cards are generally very easy to play postflop. It's a great fit-or-fold kind of hand that can be played profitably with a very naive strategy. An excellent hand for beginners to play.

my 2 cents.
eric

[OziBattler]

yep, folding 45s (AND OTHER SIMILAR SPECULATIVE HANDS) in a limit game in this context is a big mistake. its a mega easy super duper gogogo call .... flop trips, 2pr, str8draw or flushdraw and profit.

[Micro Donk]

well this guys condescending attitude backfired by giving poor advice

[ceire]

wow do not listen to this post