OK to limp more in some games?

[maca9]

Hi

When playing in games where raises aren;t having the ususal effect of thinning the field is it ok to look at limping lore and trying to win more post flop when hitting the hand.


The situation i have encountered a few times is where a standard raise or 3-4BB is getting lots of callers and obviusly with that many more hands to contend with post flop.

Also raising any more seems to then get the whole table folding A LOT.

I then started just limping more than i would and found some sucess because more takers post flop to win from if you hit something?

Is this approach a poor strategy that I have been "lucky" with OR is it sound to play like this in some games?

Maybe its just a case of me needing to read required bet size a bit better?

Any thoughts would be helpful.

Cheers

[taipan168]

Hard to answer in a vacuum. Post an example hand if you have one.

[ymu]

Early blind levels, try raising a bit more - with a full starting stack bad players just see pretty cards and a small looking raise. Obviously you don't want to raise so much that you never get action with your big hands, but taking down the blinds is a decent enough outcome. Just raise a sensible amount and play good poker post-flop - which, at this level, means fast-playing your strong hands because they will pay off plenty; these big payoffs more than make up for the times they suck out with junk.

If they're still horribly loose later on you could also start pushing a little earlier (when your stack size is awkward, lean towards a push instead of a raise).

If you limp more, you need to play better after the flop. Lots of random hands could have hit well, and even if you're still ahead after the flop the pot is small so they will call off postflop just as loose as they did pre - making it very tough to know where you are (but profitable if you're good at it).

Limping with premium hands is generally dangerous, and unnecessary, at this level. It's better to get them to commit more chips when they're further behind (preflop) than when they've caught up or are getting the odds to draw.

[cougar62]

ymu hit it on the head, as he usually does, but I'd add that if you limp at a loose pf table, you pretty much make it mandatory that you hit your hand to win. Better to find that sweet spot where your raise thins the field without chasing everyone.

If you have AA-QQ it's true that you are usually ahead regardless of the flop, but your pair will probably have to hold up to the river. And obv if you have AK, AQ, etc... you have to hit or risk being behind whatever oddball holding might be out there. So basically you should still be raising rather than limping, just find the raise that accomplishes what you want given your hand and the situation.

[DeuceSeven]

Here's how I play, it's a bit nitty. First level 10/20, opening for 4x bb seems to be the right amount at the 6.50s. After that 3xbb bb in the next 3 levels. Level 5 I start raising 2.5x if I have more then 13 bbs. Limping more with big hands is bad (AQ+, QQ+) and connectors and suited Aces is marginal and probably bad.

If people are calling standard 3x bb raise then still play tight as usual, just raise more for value and to thin the field better.

[maca9]

[ QUOTE ]
play good poker post-flop - which, at this level, means fast-playing your strong hands because they will pay off plenty; these big payoffs more than make up for the times they suck out with junk.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the feedback.

I think this is very good advice for many of us new players. It makes sense and is something I need to constantly keep in mind when playing at levels where players will call often with hands which are way behind and then draw ahead on turn and river.

Long term these players making these calls can only be good for our stacks right??

[ymu]

[ QUOTE ]

Long term these players making these calls can only be good for our stacks right??

[/ QUOTE ]
Definitely - you have to be fearless about getting your stack in when you have a hand that's likely to be the best. Not going broke with TPTK is waaaaay too advanced for this buy-in.

You MUST know what your specific opponent(s) are like though. They're not all that bad/loose - some fold too much instead of calling too much, some are decent and on their way up to higher stakes. You need to know which ones can't fold pocket 4s unimproved on an A high flop and will call the river too just in case you bluffed 4 streets for your entire stack.

[pa3lsvt]

Nothing is worse than playing a micro where you raise AK, TT, then AQ at 10/20 only to get 5 callers and completely whiff and have to give up repeatedly. But, early on with that many players to the flop I usually play a nitty 'fit or fold' after the flop, because one of the villains hit middle or top pair with his sooted whatever and isn't going away. You are going to thin the field of the crappiest of crap when you raise, so even I think it's still in your best interest to fight the good fight and value raise your good hands preflop.

Sometimes you've dropped more than 15% of your stack but you are right that long term it is better for you to have those players calling your raises. Think about the times you stacked A8 with AK or Q7s with AQ because the villain couldn't get away from top pair/no kicker. Even when you are now sitting on 1300 after level 1 you can tighten up a little and just wait because the micro players are going to let you stack them eventually, and they simply can't play well when you get to the push/fold preflop stage.

[ymu]

^^ Yep. My attitude in the early levels is to take a shot with premium hands preflop, try to pick up some pots/double up, but not worry if I have to play weak tight on a bad flop. As long as I get to blinds=100 with 1000 chips left I'm reasonably happy. I don't spew those 500 chips, but I do view them as expendable if I get dealt premium hands in situations where I need to raise/call a raise early on.