Short Stack Strategy

[knockonwood]

I know everyone hates the short stacks, but would someone mind outlining a decent short stack strategy so i can get my feet wet at NL?

[Josh.]

get the book "getting started in hold'em" and i think the sklansky/miller nl book has a pretty decent short stack section

i wouldn't recommend short stacking though. it seems like an easy way to make an easy profit, but it's ridiculously swingy, and not really that fun or challenging. most short stackers don't make much, if anything. the ones who do make money are very good at it and many have done complex calculations and simulations.

[phydaux]

Friends don't let friends drive drunk or play the Short Stack Strategy.

SSS is just like Josh said - Swingy, boring, not real poker. It's also +EV and nearly unexploitable. True, Short Stackers don't make much money. Per table. But because it requires so few decisions, and in fact not even very much thought at all, then it's really easy to multitable. So you see a lot of short stacker playing 16 tables with chat turned off. They make a small but consistent income, and because they're playing 600 hands an hour that helps to level the swings.

And that's what leads to all the newbies saying on-line poker is rigged and all the tables are full of bots.

I could short stack if I wanted to, but that sounds too much like a job to me, and I've already got one of those. I'd much rather just buy in full on four tables and play poker. You know, 'cause poker is a game and suppose to be fun and all.

[bravos1]

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Friends don't let friends drive drunk or play the Short Stack Strategy.

SSS is just like Josh said - Swingy, boring, not real poker. It's also +EV and nearly unexploitable. True, Short Stackers don't make much money. Per table. But because it requires so few decisions, and in fact not even very much thought at all, then it's really easy to multitable. So you see a lot of short stacker playing 16 tables with chat turned off. They make a small but consistent income, and because they're playing 600 hands an hour that helps to level the swings.

And that's what leads to all the newbies saying on-line poker is rigged and all the tables are full of bots.

I could short stack if I wanted to, but that sounds too much like a job to me, and I've already got one of those. I'd much rather just buy in full on four tables and play poker. You know, 'cause poker is a game and suppose to be fun and all.

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I'd love to have Curtains chime in here. I know many people on these forums despise him for how he plays short all the time. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I think it would be very interesting to here directly from a short-stacker in regards to his thinking and plan of attack.

[phydaux]

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I'd love to have Curtains chime in here. I know many people on these forums despise him for how he plays short all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not that anyone despises him. It's that, like I said, it's really hard for a deep stack player to exploit a short stacker who plays properly. That, and most short stackers tend to "hit-n-run."

Two limpers and I raise from the button with SCs. A short stacker in the SB shoves. The limpers fold and, because I don't have odds to call, so do I.

Repeat this five times. Now I'm pissed.

The short stacker types "Meep! Meep! Roadrunner!" in the chat window and logs off the table. I throw my cordless mouse against the wall and yell at my cat. My cat ignores me. Now I want to die.

I hate my cat.

[bravos1]

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I'd love to have Curtains chime in here. I know many people on these forums despise him for how he plays short all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not that anyone despises him.

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Actually, I have several people call out Curtains both here and in others forums, but I think you are correct for the most part.
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It's that, like I said, it's really hard for a deep stack player to exploit a short stacker who plays properly. That, and most short stackers tend to "hit-n-run."

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While frustrating, them doing so seems perfectly logical no?
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Two limpers and I raise from the button with SCs. A short stacker in the SB shoves. The limpers fold and, because I don't have odds to call, so do I.

Repeat this five times. Now I'm pissed.

The short stacker types "Meep! Meep! Roadrunner!" in the chat window and logs off the table. I throw my cordless mouse against the wall and yell at my cat. My cat ignores me. Now I want to die.

I hate my cat.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] yeah we all hate your cat!

[4_2_it]

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[ QUOTE ]
I'd love to have Curtains chime in here. I know many people on these forums despise him for how he plays short all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not that anyone despises him. It's that, like I said, it's really hard for a deep stack player to exploit a short stacker who plays properly. That, and most short stackers tend to "hit-n-run."

Two limpers and I raise from the button with SCs. A short stacker in the SB shoves. The limpers fold and, because I don't have odds to call, so do I.

Repeat this five times. Now I'm pissed.

The short stacker types "Meep! Meep! Roadrunner!" in the chat window and logs off the table. I throw my cordless mouse against the wall and yell at my cat. My cat ignores me. Now I want to die.

I hate my cat.

[/ QUOTE ]

How short was he? I'll call 15 bbs off with 87s here. If I win shortie is gone. If I lose shortie usually leaves. Either way, my image in the eyes of my real targets is that I suck.

[StellarWind]

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get the book "getting started in hold'em" and i think the sklansky/miller nl book has a pretty decent short stack section

[/ QUOTE ]
It's a start but it seemed incomplete when I read it. You can't play 20BB stacks as a completely preflop strategy and I had trouble understanding what to do on the flop with a hand like AK unimproved. It didn't seem to live up to it's apparent billing as a turnkey strategy any newbie could beat most games with.

Now that I'm starting to understand NL better I should revisit GSiH and see if it makes more sense the second time around.

People can hate shortstackers as much as they want but you have to learn this stuff to be a complete player. People will use it against you and you need to understand what is happening. It can also be thrust upon you when you get nearly stacked and have to play another hand or two before you manage to rebuy. Finally Miller is probably right when he suggests that sometimes buying in short is good strategy when you sit down in a strange place. You can sit and watch for a few minutes and size the game up.

[ QUOTE ]
i wouldn't recommend short stacking though. it seems like an easy way to make an easy profit, but it's ridiculously swingy, ...

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It seems intuitively obvious that a sensible tight short stack strategy should have very low variance compared to regular approaches.

Think of the full range of possible starting hands. Imagine you played those hands and then imagine the shortstacker playing the same hands:

1. Premium hands: You both play them but unlike you he never plays a really big pot. That limits both his wins and losses and sharply reduces his variance.

2. Trap hands, drawing hands, and other dicey stuff: Sometimes you play them and create all sorts of wins and losses in the process. He folds them and gets the zero-variance result every time.