Poker academy and training in general

[KrazyMike]

Hello all,

I recently started practicing limit poker through Poker Academy Pro. I've read Getting Started in Hold 'em, Hold 'Em Poker, and I am currently studying Winning Low Limit Hold' Em, with plans to study Small Stakes Hold 'em: Winning Big With Expert Play next. I'm currently playing the full ring advanced limit game and breaking about even.

My plans were to continue practicing with PA Pro until I became a winner at full ring advanced (say, at least averaging 2BB per 100 hands over at least 10,000 hands) and then invest in poker tracker and start at the micro limits at Poker Stars for real money.

Is this a good plan? Is PA actually good preparation? Is PA at advanced even comparable to the lowest micro limit? Do my book selections seem reasonable? Any suggestions?

Thanks

[uDevil]

The books are a very good start. I played with simulators when I started too. (I have Turbo Texas Hold'em. I think PA is better.) Then, beating the simulator was a pretty good indicator that you could beat the lowest limits, but things have changed. The games are harder.

I'd still say it's helpful, but I don't know how the simulators compare to real games now. Certainly playing against real people is different and varies from table to table, site to site, and from one set of stakes to the next.

The amount of preparation you feel you need is up to you, but assuming it's not a problem if you happen to lose a small amount (say ~$25, or whatever the minimum deposit is), it sounds to me like you're ready to go ahead and jump into the lowest limit games and see how you do. (If losing that amount is a problem, don't play poker.)

[phydaux]

There are two problems with PA.

First, unless you have PA Pro then the program won't calculate rake. Rake has a HUGE impact on win rate at all but mid- to high-stakes. So using the standard version of PA will overestimate your win rate. And the Pro version is like $120.00.

The second major problem is that all the PA bots are "good" players. They won't overcall raises with SCs, re-raise like an idiot and all the stuff you see happening all the time at low limit on-line tables.

As I re-read your post, it seems like you've got the pro version. Create a profile, pick one low limit like 2/4 and play JUST that limit. That will give you some idea of how rake impacts your winnings.

I think the levels of the bots were "Beginner," "Standard" and "Loose." Something like that. Make one profile for each difficulty and play a few thousand hands at each level.

Yes, I said thousand.

As I recall, I crushed Standard & Loose, but couldn't beat Beginner for the life of me.

Oh, and drop WLLH and start reading SSH right away. Next time you're in a Borders, pick up Weighing the Odds and Hold'em on the Come. Both very good. But SSH will be your guide.

[Nick D]

I SERIOUSLY recommend the following:
1. Get Poker Tracker now instead of later.. it is an invaluable tool for anyone playing online.
2. Post hands here and reply to hands you have a hard time understanding WITHOUT looking at what others have written first (called Grunching).
3. Read SSHE immediately because it is considered by many to be the bible of Small Stakes and Micro Stakes limit Hold'em.

As far as the Poker Acadamy..I have not hear of that, but any experience is good experience..well, that isn't necessarily true.. but if you're working hard at your game ANYWHERE, that's good.

[KrazyMike]

Thanks, everybody, I appreciate the replies.Is there any particular reason WLLH is no good?

It sounds like maybe I should start playing online. I'll probably start in a couple weeks, when I start my 2 week vacation and I can devote a lot of time to it(although, my wife would say I spend a lot of time on poker now [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ).

Is it safe to assume Poker stars is as good as any place else to start? I am U.S.A. player. Is ePassporte the best way for me to deposit money?

[phydaux]

It's not that WLLH 3rd Ed isn't good. The older Eds weren't so hot, but 3rd Ed is OK.

It's just that SSH is so much BETTER. It lays out all the concepts (counting and discounting outs, pot odds, pot equity, etc.), provides a solid pre-flop strategy and then provides a solid post-flop strategy.

And it's that part, the post-flop part, that is so important and why SSH is so much better than 90% of limit hold'em books out there.

Weighing the Odds is also a good limit book. Personally, I prefer it over SSH. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] Hold'em on the Come provides a solid strategy for playing draws post-flop, and in loose limit games that's where your best profits will come from.

[uDevil]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, everybody, I appreciate the replies.Is there any particular reason WLLH is no good?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have the 2nd edition. It is very well written and it helped me a lot when I started. In retrospect, I realize some of the advice was weak-tight, but from what I hear, the 3rd edition has fixed this.

Certainly SSH is excellent. Another good book is Internet Texas Hold'em by Hilger. But some experience will help you decide what books should follow the ones you have now.

[ QUOTE ]
Is it safe to assume Poker stars is as good as any place else to start? I am U.S.A. player. Is ePassporte the best way for me to deposit money?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say PS is fine for a U.S. player. Unfortunately, things are changing all the time, but for now, ePassporte works for me.

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
Is PA actually good preparation?

[/ QUOTE ]
It is better than nothing. You can practice playing tightly, and get a lot of experience seeing how your hand can hit the board.

However, the bots' weaknesses (such as making hopeless bluffs in multiway pots) are very different from the weaknesses of low stakes human players (playing too loosely and passively). As soon as you feel comfortable with the basics of the game, you may want to start playing for pennies. Even if you were to lose every hand (which you won't), this would cost less than the time you invest.

[iwannawon]

A few random comments. I'm not really impressed with most of the no limit bots (all i play) but still use it to experiment with styles every now and then. However, i do play in some of their academy online tournaments. You can log in and play against real people but not for money. Not reloadable play money either though since you have to earn it in their freerolls first. Might try that and see what you think. You can also set up your own tournament structures. If you play them, set them up to match the site you want to play and get used to the speed of the rounds and how long it takes to blind out, etc. I also read that they're going to release the polaris bot to be played there (online). It's the one that was just used in the man vs machine event. If you're a programmer they offer software to make your own bots. Pretty sure it's free but i've never tried it.

[DiamondDog]

I'd recommend that you get Pokertracker now and use the Poker Academy hand convertor (available on the Poker Academy forum).

The convertor allows you to import your Poker Academy hands into Pokertracker. I think you'll find it useful for analysing your game.

PM me if you need any help finding the convertor or setting it up. Good Luck.