Teach me when to quit a live session

[PokerJans]

Since this forum is filled with a ton of regular live players I thought this would be a good place to ask for some advice.

One of my main problems this summer has been quiting any given session when I am either up or down.

Obviously if the game is good you should want to continue playing but there are some sessions where I find myself just losing the rest of my rack or whatever even though I am not running well. Clearly this is just wrong even when the game is great, you are playing well, but just running bad. Should I just accept a 25BB loss instead of a 15BB loss even though it is clear that I will lose 10BB more often than I will make a come back?

When I am winning I typically just keep playing until I lose a pot or two and then decide that I should just book it for the sake of booking a win even though I might still feel fresh and general game conditions suggest I should keep playing. I just absolutely hate the idea of going on a nice rush on the onset for like 35BBs and the potentially losing it all back. But of course this also prevents me from huge winning session.

One thing I have been considering is maybe setting a predetermined amount of time that I will play before I start any given session. Say for example 5 hours or something.

So tell me, how do you quit good?

Looking for all sorts of general advice and comments.

Thanks

[rafiki]

I would *love* some advice on this also.

Right now I find I'm getting good at leaving before my play gets sub-optimal from tilt. The one thing I'm not good at doing is leaving after a heater. I get up 1500$ in 15/30 rather quickly. And there's no doubt that that's variance working for me. thing is variance chomps down on 600$ of it rather quickly. But it seems so weird to leave a juicy game just to hide from variance.

[ProfessorBen]

Assuming you don't have anything else to do, play until a game stops being +EV, whether that be because of your opponents(fish leave) or because of you(tired/tilted).

Stack your chips in a manner so that you are become unconcerned with how much you are up or down. You have more important things to pay attention to.

Learn to become tilt-less.

That's about it.

[Mr Rick]

My biggest problem is that it is a 2 1/2 drive to get to Foxwoods and I am able to play only 2 days (Friday and Saturday usually). So quitting early isn't an option for me. Also, the 10/20 now is usually two tables, a Must Move and a Main Game so switching tables isn't an option either - and I am not quite ready for 20/40...

So. I try to use my discretion as to when to call it a night. If I start feeling tired and the table has changed complexion with lots of new faces I will call it a night as early as 10pm. If several extremely tough players sit down late in the evening, I will rack up and leave. If I am tired and the table has several really bad loose players, I will get a cup of coffee (or tea) and go til 2am or 3am until the table breaks. I once went til 5am because the table was crazy profitable.

What I won't do is quit early because I have had an abnormal run of good luck. The luck will balance out over time anyway whether its later in the session or the next day, week, or whenever. But I have noticed that I tilt in these situations similarly to how I tilt when I am getting my brains kicked in - especially by bad play. I start making loose pre-flop calls out of position because it won't put a dent in my stack, etc. So I watch out for that and consciously put on the brakes.

The other thing I have done when there are several extremely tough players at an otherwise decent table is wait to take meal breaks until they are back from theirs - and take longer than usual.

[Overseer55]

First of all, I'm not a professional...so I don't "have" to put in the hours. But here are the guidelines that I use regarding "quitting good":

Rule #1: If I have made 2 massive mistakes in the last 1/2 hour, I quit. I am clearly not playing my best game (for whatever reason) and therefore must stop immediately.

Rule #2: I am never disappointed if I leave at a point lower than my maximum. Since the bankroll for a winning poker player is a random walk with an upward trend (math jargon), the % of time a player is at their maximum (either lifetime or per session) is very low. Therefore, I expect to leave a session with less $ than some point during the session (of course, I leave with as much as possible...but, I don't expect it).

Rule #3: If the table conditions have changed to the point where I don't believe the game is SUFFICIENTLY profitable, I walk (or change seats/tables).

Rule #4: I always set an absolute stop time when I start playing (typically 7-10 hrs for live games). I can leave earlier...but never later. The game will always be there. The odds of me making a mistake increases as I start to play a long session.

Rule #5: Apart from image considerations, I detach how I play a given hand from how I am doing in a particular session. The thought "I'm up/down $1k so far, so I can splash around with 22 UTG" should never enter your brain.

- Mark

[Chipspin]

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming you don't have anything else to do, play until a game stops being +EV, whether that be because of your opponents(fish leave) or because of you(tired/tilted).

[/ QUOTE ]

This is good advice. I also have a stop-loss of around 50BB. I find that while I might think I'm playing my A-game, after I've lost enough, I subconsciously start to focus on "coming back" and that's clearly a suboptimal poker strategy.

[magicmcq]

I also play the Foxwoods 10/20 almost exclusively.

I have the same 2 hour drive issues as you do, Rick. I think I tend to set a time amount to play, and play that amount no matter what (most because of driving considerations).

I think one of the biggest leaks in my game is my table selection. I find myself recognizing good players have arrived, but I remain at the table nonetheless (perhaps my ego thinks I can beat them). Because I keep all my chips in a Foxwood safe-deposit box, they lose value to me as money. I think that causes me to tilt less, but I have no real concept for a stop loss.

I think I would have a different methodology for determining when I should leave if I wasn't so far away. I am curious about what other long-distance commuters do in this regard.


magic

[HOWMANY]

The only time I ever quit is when the game is "bad" and I'm losing. When I'm winning everyone is afraid of me so they play bad which means infinite hour sessions. When the game is good I don't really care whether I'm winning, but at times there will be a frustration point where I've just lost enough and want to leave. If the game is not so good and I'm losing then I leave unless I have reason to believe the game is going to become good.

Honestly the games are almost always great so I never really see a reason to quit until I'm exhausted and I can barely drive home without crashing.

[that_pope]

I have a few things that I do. My most common is playing a certain number of hours and sticking to it. Since I have a full time job (*groans*), I have to get up in the morning, so I can usually only get a 4 or 5 hour session on weekdays.

Weekends, unless the rare night with no responsibility, I usually have plans at some point, and simply play until then. Outside of that, I play 7-8 hour session, and leave 90% of the time after 8 hours, unless I am still feeling really good and crushing the game, or if I am stuck and on tilt.

Another way is that I usually only bring enough money for 3 or 4 racks in a 4/8 chip game, and if I am low on that (less than half a rack left), I get up and leave. ATM is always an option, but rarely used. Then again, I have rarely been losing, so this method hasn't been used much by me the last 2 months.

Also, I leave if the game is particularly bad, and I don't feel like playing a smaller game, or 'investing' my money to get experience in a tough game.

[PokerJans]

One thing that has always stuck in my mind for whatever reason was some advice from Ray Zee that was in an old post.

He said something along the lines of when you are running good you should play much more and bigger, and when you are running bad you should play less and lower stakes.

I know that theoretically you should just keep playing as long as the game is good and you are on your game, BUT is there any real way to harness the the words of wisdom from Mr. Zee?

Does everyone just play until they are tired or the game turns for the worse with the expectation that they will eventually reach the long run?