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#1
08-03-2007, 12:16 PM
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TPTK vs fish - vbet the river?
Pretty standard hand from a session today. It was the 2nd orbit and I didn't know any of the players but villain seemed to be a passive fish: he played half his hands up to now and in the first hand at the table he played jacks super-passive on all streets (open-limp pre, call pf-raise, call with his flopped OP on drawy board 4 handed, call ~1/2 pot bet on super scary turn card).
Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 4 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter) SB: $12.70 BB: $28.55 UTG: $49.40 Hero (BTN): $25.80 Preflop: Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A  (4 Players)UTG calls $0.25, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1.25</font>, 2 folds, UTG calls $1.00 Flop: ($2.85) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players) UTG checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $2.00</font>, UTG calls $2.00 Turn: ($6.85) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players) UTG checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $4.00</font>, UTG calls $4.00 River: ($14.85) 8  (2 Players)UTG checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $6.50</font> When I was reviewing the session this bet appeared to me to be super marginal. If we assume he calls this bet (and all previous) with any A then I'm ahead of 7 ace-hands and behind to 4 (those that made 2p) plus he might raise me up with a super-duper-donkey slowplay or made 2p. Should I've been checking teh river? Btw.: Are the flop/turn bet-sizes appropriate or should I've been betting more cause he'll call with almost any A/fd anyway? I generally base my bet-size on flop structure but donkeys won't realize that, right? 
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#4
08-03-2007, 12:40 PM
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Re: TPTK vs fish - vbet the river?
[ QUOTE ]
i'd bet more on flop and turn. I think you have to bet this river especially w/ your description of villain. [/ QUOTE ] But what's his calling-range? Will he really call pfr + 3 vbets w/ A3? Will he call a weak pp or BP? Just can't find a real range for him to be sure it's +ev (when he might raise his 2p/sets and we are virtually committed getting 40:12). Edit: If we bet flop / turn closer to the pot and vbet the river, we're virtually putting in a full buy-in on that 10hands read w/ just TPTK... Still unsure whether that's good ...
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#6
08-03-2007, 12:57 PM
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Re: TPTK vs fish - vbet the river?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Will he really call pfr + 3 vbets w/ A3? Will he call a weak pp or BP? [/ QUOTE ] according to OP's description - yes i think so. btw - what is BP? [/ QUOTE ] I use BP for bottom pair - dont know if that's standard though. Oh and OP says he played a strong hand passively and called w/ his OP on a scary turn card (3-flush 3-straight) - can we reason from that that say 77/A3 are in his range? Hm I'm still pretty undecided.
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#7
08-03-2007, 01:08 PM
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Re: TPTK vs fish - vbet the river?
With a calling station like this you really need to milk him for everything he's got with your flop and turn bets. I think betting about $9 or $10 on the river is fine as played, but you then are forced to call any raise.
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#9
08-03-2007, 03:53 PM
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Re: TPTK vs fish - vbet the river?
[ QUOTE ]
With a calling station like this [/ QUOTE ] I said he played half his hands in two orbits (4 out of 8 hands) and he played a JJ overpair hand passively. I never said he is a calling station. I was asking for a possible calling range for an average player (pp? A3?) and for what my read is worth. Posts like: "Pot flop, pot turn, vbet river. " are therefor completely useless to me I know I've to vbet calling stations, but is this guy one?
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