East Coast 20-40, QQ in BB

RobA · #1 08-02-2007, 04:01 PM

I've been playing live 20-40, 10 or so hours a week, for about 7 months now, and i'm a loser at it. I started at 2-4 6 years ago, have read all the books, blah,blah, beat everything all the way up through 10-20.

Its 3AM and i've been at the table for 45 minutes or so (was playing 10-20 earlier). I'm in the BB with black QQ, not thinking super clearly cuz its late, I guess. Its 7 handed right now because of walkers. MP (my read is that he's a contributor because he's too loose, and calls too light) raises, Button (knows everyone, a dealer in the past, solid tonight, though i'm not really sure if he's a winner or not) cold-calls, SB folds, I 3-bet, call, call.

Flop 6, 8, 8 (2 clubs)

I bet out, MP calls, Button says "lets see what you got" and raises. I think and think and think and decide what turns out to be a bad decision.

Please comment on what you guys think is right here. I'd espectially appreciate comments on how, if at all, the postioning of these other two players affects the decision.

Howard Beale · #2 08-02-2007, 04:18 PM

I say 'You gotta pay to see what I got' and raise.

Let me guess:

MP had AK and button had 10-10. And you folded. Am I close?

cgrohman · #3 08-02-2007, 05:04 PM

There is no way he folded.

flavio321 · #4 08-02-2007, 05:12 PM

jam it and define your hand since he asked you what you have.
he's comment sound weak. possibly a draw.

Howard Beale · #5 08-02-2007, 05:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
There is no way he folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Give me odds.

Chipspin · #6 08-02-2007, 06:04 PM

This is a fairly easy decision. I think maybe you have MUBS playing 20.

You either have to 3-bet that flop and go from there, which I prefer due to the draw heavy board; or put button on a hand like 77, 99, TT, or JJ and call the flop raise with the intention c/r'ing the turn.

Just please don't fold...

KonigDan · #7 08-02-2007, 06:56 PM

you need to three bet here because it is such a draw heavy board and you can't be letting the mp player be taking 1, or two free cards off with a hand like aj, or k,10. You def can't just let the person in position just toss in one raise that freightens you so much. If he three bets call and see what materializes. He might have an eight and you might have to make a tough laydown on the turn, but that is probably where this laydown is made, not on the flop. You also have a backdoor flush and if he has 77s full you still have 4 outs to a bigger full house, so you are getting odds to take another off on the flop.

pocketpared · #8 08-02-2007, 06:58 PM

Fix this: "not thinking super clearly cuz its late"

I had the opposite problem. When I used to play tired I had trouble not releasing hands enough rather than releasing them too easily. By the twelfth cup of coffee I saw rabbits running between the tables, doorknobs turning...and thought everyone was bluffing me.

RobA · #9 08-02-2007, 09:36 PM

Thank you all for your responses.

Howard Beale, I respect your posts, but there is no way I'd ever fold there, as cgrohman said. I've 3-bet in that spot nearly always. This time I thought the button was solid, and really might have an 8, so I thought to myself "why do I want to isolate the guy that is maybe crushing me". And I just called. So MP called.

Turn was a K club. I check, MP bets, button folds, I call (club draw).

River was a blank, I check/call - he shows KJ diamonds (so you nailed it KonigDan).

If I had 3-bet the flop, MP has to fold, and I win.

I don't know where that thought came from to avoid isolating the guy that is crushing me. Is there ever a clear spot for that play? If so, where is it? (All I can think of is looking for overcalls on the river when someone bets into you with a scary board, and you have a pretty good hand.)

Howard Beale · #10 08-02-2007, 09:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you all for your responses.

Howard Beale, I respect your posts, but there is no way I'd ever fold there, as cgrohman said. I've 3-bet in that spot nearly always. This time I thought the button was solid, and really might have an 8, so I thought to myself "why do I want to isolate the guy that is maybe crushing me". And I just called. So MP called.

Turn was a K club. I check, MP bets, button folds, I call (club draw).

River was a blank, I check/call - he shows KJ diamonds (so you nailed it KonigDan).

If I had 3-bet the flop, MP has to fold, and I win.

I don't know where that thought came from to avoid isolating the guy that is crushing me. Is there ever a clear spot for that play? If so, where is it? (All I can think of is looking for overcalls on the river when someone bets into you with a scary board, and you have a pretty good hand.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, darn it!!!! I didn't really think you'd fold (and no sort of denigration was intended) but you threw me w/ the 'I thought and thought' and the tiredness so I took a flier. Good thing for me I didn't get the chance to make a bet. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]