wide 3 betting ranges oop

tommo · #1 08-02-2007, 01:17 PM

I keep hearing people saying that its really stupid to be calling with small pocket pairs and suited aces and the such when they get 3 bet.

this doesn't make sense to me.

If I know somebody is 3betting me with AJ+ and TT+ I'm happily calling the 3bet with 22 preflop from the button.

somebody explain to me why I'm stupid.

Yeti · #2 08-02-2007, 01:31 PM

what are you doing on these flops?

Q96
J84
KQT
943
468

how much are you making on these flops?

752
J82
A92
AK2

tommo · #3 08-02-2007, 01:35 PM

hey yeti. against a player who is cbing too often. on a non A high flop I will often shove.

assuming shove is about a psb or a little less.

Trivial · #4 08-02-2007, 01:36 PM

Sure, its okay if you're intending to play poker post-flop. It becomes a problem when you're only continuing if you hit the flop very hard.

tommo · #5 08-02-2007, 01:37 PM

I just get confused...because if villain is 3 betting me wide preflop then 22 is well ahead of his range. And on the flop I should be able to evaluate whether 22 is still far enough ahead to be willing to push (not saying pushing is best).

tommo · #6 08-02-2007, 01:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Sure, its okay if you're intending to play poker post-flop. It becomes a problem when you're only continuing if you hit the flop very hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

ah...ok this changes things. For some reason I had assumed everybody thought having a tight 3 bet calling range on the button was better than having a wide one.

mike0292 · #7 08-02-2007, 01:43 PM

Against someone with a wide 3 betting range, calling for set value is gone out the window because he isn't going to be stacking off every time.

tommo · #8 08-02-2007, 01:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Against someone with a wide 3 betting range, calling for set value is gone out the window because he isn't going to be stacking off every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok I agree. however, against a wide 3 betting range, calling because our hand is best goes up in value a lot I think.

Jamougha · #9 08-02-2007, 01:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Against someone with a wide 3 betting range, calling for set value is gone out the window because he isn't going to be stacking off every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok I agree. however, against a wide 3 betting range, calling because our hand is best goes up in value a lot I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're going to bluff shove the flop then the fact your hand is best is irrelevant.

tommo · #10 08-02-2007, 01:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Against someone with a wide 3 betting range, calling for set value is gone out the window because he isn't going to be stacking off every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok I agree. however, against a wide 3 betting range, calling because our hand is best goes up in value a lot I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're going to bluff shove the flop then the fact your hand is best is irrelevant.

[/ QUOTE ]

yep very true. The point I was making was that against a wide cb if shoving over the top is frequently marginal ev. Then it can't possibly be the case that calling with what is probably the best hand preflop is bad.

also. What I'll actually do very frequently is minraise. This means that my bet is actually not a bluff.