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#1
08-02-2007, 11:26 AM
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Value in Raising on the River with the best hand?
I had a question about raising with the goods on the river. This kind of stemmed from the TV forum, as I was watching the WPT last night. A player just smooth called on the river with Trip Aces, and another time just called on the end with Jacks full.
The question is -- is there any value in raising? I see players smooth call on the end just so they can see what their opponent has been playing, and gain valuable information... as opposed to raising, and your opponent insta-folds. It seems like the only time to raise the river, is to induce a 3-bet from your opponent who you are fairly sure has a second best hand. Thoughts? 
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#2
08-02-2007, 12:47 PM
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Re: Value in Raising on the River with the best hand?
It's very possible that they either think that they don't have the best hand or will only be called if they are beat. With that trip aces hand if hero has A7 on a AAQ52 board there are very few hands that could call a raise and not beat the A7.
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#3
08-02-2007, 01:42 PM
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Re: Value in Raising on the River with the best hand?
NL is also much different than limit in this respect. If there are decent size stacks behind it may be much better to just call on the river in NL than put in a raise, You open yourself up to a reraise, possibly a significant reraise, that could be a bluff or a better hand. It puts you in a tough spot. In Limit, if you make this move it only costs you one more bet.
And sometimes a player wants to see the other players hand so they just call. Or they have a decent enough read to know the other guy isn't strong enough to call a raise, so why bother.
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#4
08-02-2007, 03:26 PM
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Re: Value in Raising on the River with the best hand?
Keep in mind that flat calling on the river with the near-nuts while at the final table of a major NL tournament is much different than flat calling with the near-nuts in almost any other NL game (cash or tourney).
In the case of those WPT hands, he has to figure that first of all his opponent is far less likely to pay off a raise with a worse hand, and second of all the huge amount of cash money which he stands to lose should his opponent come back over the top with a better hand.
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#5
08-02-2007, 03:50 PM
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Re: Value in Raising on the River with the best hand?
I've actually read about that somewhere - where if you just call with the nuts/near-nuts on the end at a major NLHE tournament (i.e. WSOP), you could receive a 20 minute penalty? I understand its to crack down on collusion, but I think this is a little extreme.
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#6
08-02-2007, 04:08 PM
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Re: Value in Raising on the River with the best hand?
[ QUOTE ]
I've actually read about that somewhere - where if you just call with the nuts/near-nuts on the end at a major NLHE tournament (i.e. WSOP), you could receive a 20 minute penalty? [/ QUOTE ] The penalty is for checking the stone cold nuts when last to act on the river. It's a new WSOP rule this year, to prevent soft playing.
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#7
08-02-2007, 04:41 PM
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Re: Value in Raising on the River with the best hand?
Ah, Thanks for the clarification. That's even worse though.. If I have the stone nuts in early position, and I know my opponent is the type who will bet when checked to more often than call/raise when I bet into him... I'd prefer to check. I can understand Negreanu's gripe with all these new rules by tournament directors.
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#8
08-02-2007, 11:30 PM
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Re: Value in Raising on the River with the best hand?
[ QUOTE ]
Ah, Thanks for the clarification. That's even worse though.. [/ QUOTE ] Your reading comprehension is horrible.
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#9
08-03-2007, 10:48 AM
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Re: Value in Raising on the River with the best hand?
[ QUOTE ]
Your reading comprehension is horrible. [/ QUOTE ] I overlooked the last to act part.. but thanks for your very insightful post, it brings alot to the discussion. Guess you've never misread anything before, we will all strive to be more like you.
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#10
08-03-2007, 11:51 AM
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Re: Value in Raising on the River with the best hand?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I've actually read about that somewhere - where if you just call with the nuts/near-nuts on the end at a major NLHE tournament (i.e. WSOP), you could receive a 20 minute penalty? [/ QUOTE ] The penalty is for checking the stone cold nuts when last to act on the river. It's a new WSOP rule this year, to prevent soft playing. [/ QUOTE ] What a stupid rule. Although I'm not sure why you would want to check the nuts anyways. Why would you soft play in a tournament with potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars at stake by allowing a player to remain alive when you could possibly eliminate him. Seems it goes beyond soft playing and moves alot closer to collusion
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