10/20 LO8 Explain

cwar · #1 08-02-2007, 12:24 AM

Villain is very capable, rarely 3bets preflop, mixes up his play, reads hands well, plays preflop well and isnt definitely not hyper aggro and can make folds. We have been playing HU for a long time at this point and Im up about 8bb. He missed one or two bets that I could see but thats about it. What should I be thinking here on this flop and what should my plan be for the rest of the hand?

Hero raises A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Villain 3-bets, Hero calls

Flop comes A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6sb)
Villain bets

Buzz · #2 08-02-2007, 12:57 AM

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What should I be thinking here on this flop and what should my plan be for the rest of the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]CWar - If the hand goes all the way to the showdown and if:<ul type="square">• you scoop, you'll probably win eleven 11 small bets.

• you split, you'll get back the three small bets you already have contributed.

• you get scooped, you'll probably lose five more small bets.[/list]It's very hard to read a heads-up opponent who mixes up his play a bit. However, I think a scoop by you is very unlikely. Looks like if you call, for the most part you'll be gambling five chips to possibly win three. Very unappealing.

Could you steal the pot with a re-raise and then a follow up bet on the turn after the probable check by your opponent on the turn (after you have re-raised the flop bet)? Somehow, given your own description of your opponent, I doubt it, although it is a possibility. It should at least cross your mind, and I think it's your best chance to win the hand.

But I like folding better, and that is probably what I would do here.

Buzz

sfgiants · #3 08-02-2007, 01:44 AM

I play stakes much lower than this, yet it seems intuitive to me that any two unpaired low cards, as innocuous as 73xx or even 28xx has a large equity advantage against your high-only hand.

I think you would need a stronger hand here to play exclusively for high.

There are others more experienced posters than me,
(and I'm sure what I am posting is probably obvious to most here), but it seems there is no need to try to get fancy here and that you should simply find a better spot to outplay your opponent.

cwar · #4 08-02-2007, 01:47 AM

Thanks guys, that makes a lot of sense.

Borys313 · #5 08-02-2007, 03:51 AM

You floped to good to just give it up heads-up. Raise on flop and if he has no clubs he will probably just call and then you take a free card on turn.

If you get 3-bet on flop you are probably far behind and take a quick exit for 2 small bets instead of 5.

Toro de Rojo · #6 08-02-2007, 12:38 PM

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a large equity advantage against your high-only hand

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A 2, 4, 7 or 8 peels off, and he has a low hand. Not necessarily a stout one, but certainly a qualifier.

That said, I either raise or fold here. More often than not, I fold.

sfgiants · #7 08-03-2007, 04:35 AM

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a large equity advantage against your high-only hand

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A 2, 4, 7 or 8 peels off, and he has a low hand. Not necessarily a stout one, but certainly a qualifier.

That said, I either raise or fold here. More often than not, I fold.

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Right. Thanks for pointing that out. Doh. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] Any 2 unpaired low cards still maintain that advantage, though.

cero_z · #8 08-03-2007, 11:09 AM

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Villain is very capable, rarely 3bets preflop, mixes up his play, reads hands well, plays preflop well and isnt definitely not hyper aggro and can make folds.

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Did you mean that he plays well POST-flop? Because rarely 3-betting pre is not "playing well" in most cases. If his 3-bet means A2xx, A-wheel-wheel-x, or AAxx, as it does for most who rarely 3-bet pre, then you are in very bad shape here. However, there are 6 bets in pre-flop, so I don't think you can afford to just give it up. I would call, and fold to another bet if I didn't either make a low or 2 pair/trips (and call down if I did). You don't have a raise here, IMO; the free card play is not worth it unless it's guaranteed to work whether he's strong or not (meaning he'll always go for a turn c/r when strong). The bottom line is that this is super-marginal vs. a guy whose 3-bet signals a monster, so even folding the flop would not be too bad.

Borys313 · #9 08-03-2007, 01:08 PM

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Villain is very capable, rarely 3bets preflop, mixes up his play, reads hands well, plays preflop well and isnt definitely not hyper aggro and can make folds.

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Did you mean that he plays well POST-flop? Because rarely 3-betting pre is not "playing well" in most cases. If his 3-bet means A2xx, A-wheel-wheel-x, or AAxx, as it does for most who rarely 3-bet pre, then you are in very bad shape here. However, there are 6 bets in pre-flop, so I don't think you can afford to just give it up. I would call, and fold to another bet if I didn't either make a low or 2 pair/trips (and call down if I did). You don't have a raise here, IMO; the free card play is not worth it unless it's guaranteed to work whether he's strong or not (meaning he'll always go for a turn c/r when strong). The bottom line is that this is super-marginal vs. a guy whose 3-bet signals a monster, so even folding the flop would not be too bad.

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This is a good advice, for sure better then mine.

cwar · #10 08-03-2007, 03:02 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
Villain is very capable, rarely 3bets preflop, mixes up his play, reads hands well, plays preflop well and isnt definitely not hyper aggro and can make folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you mean that he plays well POST-flop? Because rarely 3-betting pre is not "playing well" in most cases. If his 3-bet means A2xx, A-wheel-wheel-x, or AAxx, as it does for most who rarely 3-bet pre, then you are in very bad shape here. However, there are 6 bets in pre-flop, so I don't think you can afford to just give it up. I would call, and fold to another bet if I didn't either make a low or 2 pair/trips (and call down if I did). You don't have a raise here, IMO; the free card play is not worth it unless it's guaranteed to work whether he's strong or not (meaning he'll always go for a turn c/r when strong). The bottom line is that this is super-marginal vs. a guy whose 3-bet signals a monster, so even folding the flop would not be too bad.

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He doesnt 3bet too often but he will rarely do it with a hand that will reveal a lot of his hole cards, for example he would probably pick something like 234K double suited before like an A2xx hand. From your comments you seem to believe 3betting preflop a fair amount is good, this is different from what Ive heard before (most people tell me to rarely 3bet preflop in heads up situations) can you explain your thoughts on preflop 3bets here?