3/6 razz steal/resteal - 1st razz session ever

[DrewOnTilt]

Last night I downloaded a Cardrunners video on Razz just for [censored] and giggles. The play in the video was so bad that I logged onto Full Tilt and jumped into a game.

I've never played Razz before, but I more than held my own except for one hand where I misread my cards and check/folded a board lock on 6th [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

In this hand, I raise with a fairly weak hand to steal the antes, and a weak player reraised behind me. I ran this hand through twodimes on all of the streets and was surprised at how the percentages swung back and forth so dramatically. Razz is certainly an interesting game.

I read Villain as "weak" in that he coldcalled a fair amount with low cards yet to act, he seemed fairly passive on the later streets, and in general seemed loose.

How's my play here? Obviously I got lucky on 7th street, but how about everything else? I didn't bet the river because I didn't think he would call unless he could beat the 8 that I was representing. Did I miss a bet?

Razz ($3/$6), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $1 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.33 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 3: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___completes___calls

4th Street - (5.67 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (3.83 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets

6th Street - (5.83 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets

River - (7.83 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___checks
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks

Total pot: (7.83 BB - $47)

[chucky]

betting 6th street seems spewy. You are drawing to 86 while your opponent is drawing to 7 or 6, plus you are behind. Checking the river is good because you opponent probably wont call with worse than you 86 and raises with 7.

[Andy B]

Get Sklansky on Poker.

The steal attempt on third is a little dubious, but OK if the game is on the tight side. You have to fold to his raise, though. Fourth is an easy fold. I'm OK with the bet on fifth, but realize that you're probably the underdog. Check sixth. You are losing and he is not folding. I think the river is close. Checking is fine especially if you think that there's a good chance that the other guy will try to bluff.

[NotFadeAway]

I don't like betting sixth, and I would probably lead seventh. However, I don't like entering in the first place. I usually only play razz in tournaments, though, so I'm not too sure about ring games.

[*TT*]

fold 3rd when he raises your steal attempt.

[DrewOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
fold 3rd when he raises your steal attempt.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm starting to like this line more and more in stud games. This is pretty standard, yes? To give up on steals immediately and not see a 4th card?

[2461Badugi]

If you check sixth, you're giving up any way to win the hand except catching cards, and a savvy opponent will bet into your weakness anyway. One you've gotten this far with your steal, you need to bet sixth and seventh regardless of your seventh street card. You'll get more than enough river folds to justify it.

[2461Badugi]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm starting to like this line more and more in stud games. This is pretty standard, yes? To give up on steals immediately and not see a 4th card?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sklansky recommends it, which is one of the big things I disagree with SoP about. Sure your equity sucks, but most hands in Razz don't get close to showdown anyway. You're getting plenty good odds to catch fourth against a brick, which is the thing that really matters.

[SuitedBaby]

Does Cardrunners have a lot of stuff on stud games? How do you find their advice? I'm assuming you meant their opponent's play was bad.

Patty

[SGspecial]

[ QUOTE ]
Does Cardrunners have a lot of stuff on stud games? How do you find their advice? I'm assuming you meant their opponent's play was bad.

Patty

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you sure? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Anyway, Drew welcome to the wonderful and backwards world of razz. Sounds like you already got a valuable lesson in reading your own hand (the hard way), so I'll give you a nugget about reading other players' hands. If the villain in this hand is a "weak" player (i.e. usually loose and passive as you describe) whose normal MO is to cold call on 3rd, then this is no resteal. Here he is raising you (not reraising since your bet is completing the bring-in and not technically a raise), so what do you read him for? A whole lotta strength. And if you do catch good on 4th, or even 5th, is he likely to make a bad fold given your read? No. If you get to the later streets, are you likely to make good decisions or significantly outplay him? No, at least not yet. What does all this add up to?

Give it up on 3rd, run like little girl on 4th.