After 2.200 stts I am looking for advice on my next move

[blowbubbles]

Hi guys,

( I have read the whole FAQ-section.)

I play STT's for recrational purposes (5-20 hrs/week), but would love to have success at the highest possible level.

I have now just finished cashing a $150 rebuy-bonus from Stars by 4-tabling a little more than 400 $16's for a ROI of 11,5%. My ROI for all my 16's (740) is 10%. Earlier I played lower levels with ok results, but I did also try 250 $27's with a negative ROI of 2,5%. My total bankroll is $ 3.600 after investing $ 1.600 in deposits/rebuybonusoffers.

I use Pokeroffice and I Sharkscope multitablers to do some tableselection and getting reads. I also understand the basic ideas of ICM.

I find it a bit boring when the play gets too donkish around me as it certainly is at the 16's (not to say that I don't donk away chips from time to time). At the same time I realize that the rakes are lowest at the 16's and that it gets harder and harder to beat the rake as you climp up the buyin-levels. Already early on in my "stt-career" I asked myself how the high-level stt-players could do more than in the best case just barely pay the rake.

1. Should I invest more time in stt-tools and HH-studies before playing more or..
2. should I keep on grinding at the 16's where I can beat the rake comfortably or..
3. should I move up or..
4. should I move to another site (I live in Norway so Party is available, but my small efforts on Party has not been successfull) or..
5. should I move on to cashgames (I don't like the thought of this as I never understand when to leave the table..). If so, level and pokersite? Full ring or 6-max? or..
6. ANY OTHER IDEAS??

Any thoughts or recommendations will be truly appreciated.

(First of all I will have a week break to play bridge in the norwegian championshiptournaments.)

Blowing bubbles in the air [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DevinLake]

Do what you feel is best. but, if you are going to keep playing sngs (1) is mandatory.

[Takeover_inc]

I agree with doing what you feel comfortable with.

If i were you, i am a nit so keep that in mind, i would grind out the 16s and try to improve your game.

I know it is not tons of fun to get sucked out on, but you can play the 16s and make a nice profit. Then you can use the profit to buy a sng tool or some sort of sng training to make you a better player.

Also you could continue to play the 16s and attempt to increase the number of tables you play. This will also help with the donk players because you can't worry about a bad beat because you have other tables going.

Just my thoughts, but you should really do what you want to do.

[SneakyFerret]

740/250 are such small numbers it's unbelievable. I'm not saying that you can't draw any conclusion about your play from results over that many tourneys, but you definitely have to play more.... closer to 3-5K, to make any solid conclusions. I would continue to play the 16's if I were you, at least for a while, and study, study, study!

[blowbubbles]

OK, play on at the 16's and study more. It was perhaps what I expected to hear, but thanks anyway. It is nice to hear the opinion of somebody else. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[agnoke10]

i really think playing is >studying. Yes studying is a great way to improve your game, but once you get the basics of ICM down, i think a great way to improve your game is to play less tables for a week or something. It really helped my game.

[DevinLake]

bubbles, I'll reiterate that you should do what you feel is right for you. Only you know the strength of your own game, and only you can assess how you abilities stack up at the 27s.

So many on this board seem to think that because you need 1000s of sngs at a given level to have a statistically relevant idea of your true win rate, that you need to play those 1000s to move up. This simply isn't the case.

I never played more than 1000 sngs at a given level until I reached the $55s at party. Every time I moved up, I could tell by observing the quality of my opponents that I wasn't out of place at these limits. Again, this is for you to decide.

You do not need to play 3000 sngs at the $16s to determine if you are good enough to move up.

[wiggs73]

Eh, this post is probably going to get long but w/e.

First of all, I think playing 5,000 games to determine whether or not you need to move up is ridiculous. I have a pretty simple rule for moving up and it applies to cash games, SNGs, and everything else. Step one is, click the cashier button and see if you have enough money to lose a couple of buyins at the next level and not be busto. Step 2 is, ask yourself if you feel like taking a shot. That's really easy and it works.

I'm pretty sure I didn't play more than a few hundred $5s before moving up. I probably played less than 100 before playing my first $10 or $20. Sometimes my shots sucked and I had to move back down. Sometimes my shots didn't suck and I started pwning everyone. But I do know that I was playing $50s a whole hell of a lot quicker that way than if I had played some ridiculous amount of games at every level between $5 and $50.

And why do you need to EITHER play cash games OR $16s OR $27s? Why not play all of them. This month I've played 1/2, 2/4, 3/6, and 5/10 6max cash games, 3/6 full ring, omaha cash, omaha hi/lo cash, razz cash, horse cash, NLHE MTTs, omaha hi/lo MTTs, fixed limit MTTs, and omaha hi MTTs ranging from $5 to $165.

So play whatever you feel like. If you are tired, not feeling ambitious, and just want to grind on Monday, play some 16s. If you're feeling sharp and ballsy Tuesday, take a shot at some 27s. If you feel bored with SNGs Wednesday, try learning cash games. Start at low stakes and if you feel like everyone sucks compared to you, take a shot at the next level up. What I *wouldn't* recommend doing though, is playing SNGs one day next week when you really want to take a stab at cash games because Rando McGee told you on an internet message board you should be playing SNGs.

Investing in tools and studying hands is ALWAYS a good idea and you should always be doing this regardless of what you're playing (well not buying tools, that's a 1 time thing, but you get the picture).

Anyway, as far as some specifics other people actually can answer... from what I hear the play is pretty soft on Party. You can get rake back on Full Tilt. So those are some things to consider. You can leave cash games whenever you want to, haha.

But yeah, to make a long story short, do whatever you f'ng feel like and don't depend on a bunch of random internet people to tell you what's best for you. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[mildeng]

I dont like the playing>studying comment.
You can play a million SNGs a day and not realize leaks that are taking away from your overall profit. Read up on some of the better books out there (check out the forum on that) and definitely invest in some tools such as PT or SNGWiz. I was in a similar situation and I definitely see differences in my game since purchasing the tools. Best of all, if your win rate continues into the future, the tools pay for themselves!

[agnoke10]

once you get to a certain level though, ICM is pretty much standard stuff. SNGwiz is great for these situations but once you have them down pretty much perfectly, its time to try and add other dimensions to your game. When you play less tables, you find that you are making better decisions in every way possible, not just ICM butin other little things that can REALLY help with the ROI.


as for the OP. It seems like you are playing great poker at the 16s, 11.5% is a solid ROI, although not tops. In terms of moving up in stakes, I think I am one of the more qualified posters on this forum. I started at 3.40s on stars and have since moved up to 60s/100s. The way i decided if i was ready to move up was by maxing out my ROI at anyone level over about 1000 games. So if the maximum ROI at the 16s is 20% (which i believe is close) i wouldnt move up to the 27s until i had reached that. Just my personal thoughts.

You have an ROI at the 16s that is very good, and higher than some regulars there, although I think there is some room for improvement. I hit 19% over 1500 games at the 16s, and I am a MUCH better player now (i think i could improve it a little). Study some HHs, and maybe try a week of REALLY focusing on your play. Good Luck.