15/30 hand...line check

[LiquorandPoker]

new poster, please be kind:

Online 15/30 game, pretty loose. I dont have specific reads on players yet.

3 players in late position post their big blinds ($30).

I have 86 offsuit UTG. I raise. The next guy reraises. One of the posters calls the 2 cold. Everyone else folds (I call of cource).

The flop is JJ7. I check, the preflop raiser bets, the poster folds, and I call. the turn is a 5, I check, the raiser bets, I check-raise. he calls. the river is a 9, I bet and he calls.

Is this ok?

[doublebluff]

standard.

you were leading the whole way.

[Gap23Razor]

you played the river fine

[LiquorandPoker]

[ QUOTE ]
you played the river fine

[/ QUOTE ]

i know but what about the rest?

[BeakWetter]

I'm no veteran in this forum, but is this post for real?

[Fianchetto]

damn you play good.

[cmcxchris]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this ok?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess it kind of depends on what your priorities are.

[Gap23Razor]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you played the river fine

[/ QUOTE ]

i know but what about the rest?

[/ QUOTE ]

your play on those streets is outside the box i think in...but Fianchetto and DoubleBluff have weighed in, i defer judgement to them

[rafiki]

the idea behind the preflop raise obviously makes sense. But in 6max I think it would almost never work...

[KitCloudkicker]

I guess it's time for me to let the cat out of the bag.

FWIW I was really tempted to let this thread keep going, but I think it's obvious that everyone's gonna say the same thing.

First off, this is a gimmick account that I created, just to post this hand. I even chose what I thought was a newbie-type forum username [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

This hand was played by the highly successfull cash game pro Matt Matros. If anyone hasn't read his book, "The Making of a Poker Player," I recommend you get it now. It's a great read. (And trust me, it's not just filled with bizarre plays like this).

The reason I posted this hand was to generate some discussion on it - specifically, I was curious as to your guys' opinion on his comments, posted in his blog (www.mattmatros.com) as follows.

"I don't really dislike any of the plays in this hand. The only one that I even consider questionable is UTG's open-raise. And since that's the play most people objected to, I'll address it first. There is $135 in the pot. It costs UTG $60 to raise. There are lots of good things that can happen after he raises. Someone with two big cards can isolate and UTG can end up getting 2.5-1 on his money as a 3-2 dog. He could end-up heads-up with one of the posters, getting almost 3-1 on his money against an only-slightly-better-than-random hand. And then there are a lot of things that can happen that are pretty close to EV neutral (e.g., two or three posters call). And of course, bad things could happen. He could run into an overpair, or it could come back to him four bets. Overall, I think UTG's raise is close to zero EV. But if he gets to showdown the hand and the other players think he's a "horrible" "fish," it's got to be a plus-EV play in the long run. I personally have a rule (somewhat borrowed from my friend Jerrod). Anytime a play is close to zero EV, I choose the more aggressive route to build my image. Also, I would rather make every tiny plus-EV play in the book and risk throwing in some minus-EV plays, than avoid every minus-EV play at the expense of some plus-EV plays. I think the plus-EV plays become even more plus-EV when people have seen you make minus-EV plays.

Other criticisms:

"UTG shouldn't check-call the flop." He's getting 13.5-1, he has a three-straight and possibly two live cards, and he's closing the action. Easy call.

"UTG shouldn't check-raise the turn." UTG has to take the aggressive action now that he's picked up an actual semibluff. Many players would lay down AQ, KQ, AK, or even a small pair to that check-raise. Add that equity to the open-ender equity, and it's an easy check-raise.

"UTG should've folded to the preflop reraise." Anyone who would fold to the preflop reraise needs immediate lessons in Limit Hold 'Em. You just don't fold getting 11.5-1 preflop when you can close the action, with any hand you've voluntarily put money in with. If you fold here, your raises will get zero respect the rest of the session.

"UTG+1 shouldn't have reraised preflop." Again, you need Limit Hold 'em lessons if you think this. UTG+1 knows UTG doesn't need much of a hand to raise three posters. Pocket eights is plenty to isolate with here, creating a bunch of dead money with the probable best hand. Doing anything other than reraising preflop in his spot would've been a big mistake.

So that's my analysis. In case anyone hasn't guessed, I won both those hands. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]"

I'll start by saying that I think his UTG raise is way too optimistic.

Cheers,
Kit