3-6 Prima ... iso with A7o

[Point Blank]

Babar was watching on this one and thought my turn fold was, in general, pretty bad

i thought it was OK

background
utg1 is the probably one of the worst players I've ever seen (but he's not the villain)

bb ... around 300 hands
loose and a little on the passive side (50/6/0.8)
<font color="green">haven't notice much from villain, but doesn't seem to be too tricky, betting ok hands and calling down with complete junk (as they do [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])</font>

<font color="blue">Prima 6max ... Hero is CO with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]</font>

preflop folds, utg1 limps, <font color="red">I raise</font>, folded to bb who calls

FLOP A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
bb checks, utg1 checks, <font color="red">i bet</font>, BB CALLS, utg1 folds

TURN2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
bb checks, i bet, <font color="red">BB Raises</font>, I think and fold

BBB thought a check behind and call most rivers was best (I did think about that but decided bet/fold was how i was going to go)

i don't really have a 'read' but my 'feel of the moment' (lol)
this guy generally calls down with crap and would most likley would be pulling this move with a jack, the flush, or an ace (and my ace isn't too solid)

of course there is some chance that this is a bluff - but I feel I could trust this guy's check raise if it came (so I bet out as I'll be getting value from a bunch of junk, and if villain has one heart)

i only want to put one more bet into the pot at this point in the hand ... so which do you feel is better (betting as he'll call with a bunch of junk and likely only c.r with a better (IMO) ... or checking and calling the river)

[milesdyson]

i am fail to sight how fold on turn to be bad

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
i am fail to sight how fold on turn to be bad

[/ QUOTE ]

do you have a miles to english translation available on the web somewhere?

Against this guy, this is a tough spot. Without a read, I guess you are losing, but he can have just a flush draw, and we do have 4 outs vs. a flush.

Preflop is really, really bad.

You are isolating a limper with trash, and the BB is a 50+VP.

Let's build a 4 way, raised pot with offsuit dick cards, yay

[Heisenb3rg]

Deifnitly a good fold on the turn and I dont think it's close.

pre-flop:
It's close and depends on how passive the person your isolating is.
It's defintly correct to isolate passive players who will allow you to frequeutnly showdown your ace high, peel ace high flops, and call down with low pairs on ace high flops. If they are bad but agressive, you have to tighten up, cause they'll play back at with you with air enough to put you in tough spots.

The players behind you are also important.. The tighter the better.
With a loose blind, id probabily throw A7o in the muck and raise A8o. With a bunch of nits behind me , id probabily raise any ace.


I disagree strongly with hip saying this is really really bad. But would agree that It's probabily a fold PF.

[Oink]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop is really, really bad.


[/ QUOTE ]

I am really really bad at preflop play [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Naa, with a vey loose BB I think its close and if button or the SB were loose as well I its a muck for me.

But in general you should really really try to play pots with bad players. If UTG+1 is the worst player OP have ever seen I can understand why he would raise it.


Turn is a bad fold IMO. Villain is a moron and can easily have a pair + good club. Also with 4 outs against a flush, 2 outs against Jx and the possibility of getting a free SD when a club rivers makes this turn a call. (But I hate disagreeing with Miles so I am not really sure)

Oh, and I disagree with BBB. With a 3-flush out there you have to bet. So much value to be made.

[Gurravasa]

The iso-raise is not that bad, but it's pretty close. I wouldn't iso if I thought the chance was big that both blinds tag along. But if just the loose-passive BB calls that wouldn't frighten me too much. Against this passive postflop player I wouldn't check behind on a 3-flush board. Well if BB really is passive would he c/r turn with a draw? I doubt that and the fold is probably right.

[Oink]

[ QUOTE ]
villain ... can easily have a pair + good club.

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Well not really on that board so I guess the fold is ok.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
villain ... can easily have a pair + good club.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well not really on that board so I guess the fold is ok.

[/ QUOTE ]

8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is one example

And guys, PF is really that bad.

Iso raising with A7o from that position with a BB that is never going to fold is a money burning proposition.

Seriously, the flop is going to come down Q64 or some crap, you will bet, both passive players will call the flop with nothing, you will check the turn, and fold the river.

A7s is different, I think A9o is the lowest non suited ace I would raise here.

[Oink]

How is it any different having A9o compared to A7o on the Q64 flop..? How is it even much better having AJo on that flop?

It always sucks when you miss a flop but no one is telling you to burn money postflop.

If you want to play A9o how can A7o be "really really bad"?

I am not saying A7o is an easy raise. Just that it isnt "really really bad"


Besides, we all know you are a nit [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
How is it any different having A9o compared to A7o on the Q64 flop..? How is it even much better having AJo on that flop?

It always sucks when you miss a flop but no one is telling you to burn money postflop.

If you want to play A9o how can A7o be "really really bad"?

I am not saying A7o is an easy raise. Just that it isnt "really really bad"


Besides, we all know you are a nit [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]


To be honest, I usually fold A9o as well, because at least with ATo, you can flop gutshots that you can bet the flop with and not have to fold to a c/r.

The problem is, you are not going to hit the flop often enough with A7o against 2 passive calling stations to make it profitable. You are going to bet your 3 outer twice, and check the river UI.

I'd much rather iso raise this guy with a hand like Q9s if I had to choose.

I'm not being a nit, I just don't like burning money

One other thing. I don't need to introduce more hands in my range that I bet/bet/check with.