Strategy for Loosening Low Limit Play

[KoH]

As we all know, most low limit tables are, at least generally, filled with a significant number of loose, passive players.

The generally accepted advice in playing these games is to do the opposite, play tight, and typically, once you do get a hand, you'll get paid off.

Recently, I've been thinking about ways I could loosen up my low limit game without giving anything up in the long run, and it occurs to me that since so many people limp and so few raise in these games, that playing trash pre-flop could potentially be profitable.

So long as I can be confident that nobody behind me will raise, x # will call, and x # have called, then perhaps I can consider playing some truly dreadful hands, taking into consideration the implied odds if I hit on the flop, and dropping the hand like a hot potato if I don't. Even if I flop bottom pair, so long as the board isn't threatening, I will often be getting the odds to chase to two-pair or trips.

This brings into being a new way of looking at playing hands preflop instead of position...this in fact ignores position. Instead the consideration is "how many have called in front of me, how many will likely call behind me, and is someone likely to raise behind me."

So the question is:

- how many players would have to be in the pot with you pre-flop to justify limping with: any two suited cards, unsuited connectors, unsuited (1,2,3) gapped connectors, 2 cards 4 or less, or unsuited and unconnected cards?

Does anyone believe there may be merit in this thinking? I'm not saying one should play this way, and I haven't tested it in live games, but it's a theory I've been playing around with for use in your *typical* low limit game.

Addendum: regarding whether or not someone raises, it's worth adding that if enough players have called of front, it's unlikely that anyone will fold to a raise from someone acting after you...in for a penny, in for a pound. Of course it would obviously be better if no raise occurred after you so playing while using my above ideas with an aggressive player after you or if one of the fish looks like they might raise...that would probably be the wrong time to play garbage. It's just that unless, on the off chance that a raise and reraise happens after you've acted (very rare in these games) you probably won't lose any of the initial callers, and some of the loosey gooseys after you would likely STILL call the two bets cold on nothing but a clover and a dream...so a raise behind you, while undesirable, is not as disastrous as one might think.

[ncboiler]

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As we all know, most low limit tables are, at least generally, filled with a significant number of loose, passive players.



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I stopped reading here. Must be talking about live games.

[BigBadBabar]

well if he is talking about live games feel free to respond if you have live game experience...?

[KitCloudkicker]

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- how many players would have to be in the pot with you pre-flop to justify limping with: any two suited cards, unsuited connectors, unsuited (1,2,3) gapped connectors, 2 cards 4 or less, or unsuited and unconnected cards?


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sorry tl;dr but

any two suited cards: button and sb w/lots of people in

unsuited connectors: sb only. some like to play the button, i dont. if whole table sucks i might play T9o

unsuited and unconnected cards: unless in 2/3 sb structure always fold

unsuited (1,2,3) gapped connectors: sb, but ditch the 3 gappers.

fwiw i play looser pf than many recommend. and if you arent good postflop then these hands all become money burners.

[KoH]

The plays you suggested are common to how I CURRENTLY PLAY...again, we're thinking outside the box here, considering a new idea, free from preconceptions of how we should play.

Again, this concept ignores position so "only in the sb" would be irrelevant in this case. Now, you might want to argue that in order to get the right odds to play hand X you would need 8 limpers in front of you, effectively putting you in the small blind, and only then if everyone limps, but we need to forget about position for this thought experiment...we're just considering the following:

How many limpers are necessary to to play trash hand X (one of the hands I mentioned in my first post).

Once again, bear in mind that this whole concept is based on the specific set of circumstances I listed in my first post.

...and yes, I do play live games only.

[fishyak]

Do your "loosening up" in your last 3 positions. Also, loosen up your raising, particularly PF from those positions. Last, throw in a semi-random semi-bluff PF raise from BB once in a while. If you really want to mess with everyone's head, raise EVERY hand PF for the first orbit.

I've never done all of these at the same time. The looser PF raises from late position is the one I use the most.

[Frond]

OP, try it out and let us know how it goes, but in the long run, playing trash hands all the time just because 5 people limped in before you is going to spew away lots of chips. Start with trash and you will end up with trash(most of the time that is). Jsut watch teh hands that the worst of the worst always play and watch there stacks go down.

"Honey, I shrunk the chips!"

[Mike]

Google 'Penn Poker Project'. There is a PDF file of hand probabilities you can download.

If you loosen up you have to be willing to give up something else in your game. Generally loosening up means increased variance and possibly reduced profit. For example, you can play every two flush cards and you will see a profit if enough times goes by, but I doubt you have a large enough bankroll to get there.

There is no magic formula, but here is a suggestion. If you do not already, play 86, 87, 89. With an average LL game these are about break even hands and they make you look like you play more than you do. Be aware though, if your post flop play and hand reading are average, I would not try to change my play.

I do not know if it is still in print, but there is a book from Bob Turgeon, playing Low limit Holdem The 20-4-50 way. Be forewarned you need a strong stomach and deep pockets, but if you can understand what he is telling you, you can play loose as a goose and make $$.

All that being said, if you try anything past the pdf file, you are likely headed towards the rail. Loose play is not for many people.

[PokrLikeItsProse]

Rather than playing crap hands preflop, I suggest raising it up with hands like 87s on the button if you want to psychologically affect your opponents.

[dedenburn]

*grunch*

I would say that to loosen up as substantially as you suggest, your post flop play would have to be exceptional...one of the reasons these hands are trash is the situations they can get you in down the road.

BTW, there have been games (live) where I play any suited cards but the best spot for that is in aggressive games, not passive ones. It's hard to get paid off well enough in a passive game.

I really think that it would be more profitable to concentrate on "traditional" strategy (value betting, pushing smaller edges) than reinventing pf standards and shooting variance through the roof.