Abuse of IWTSTC?

[CletusVanDamme]

Weekly $2/5 NL/PLO/8 game. One new player in the game is incredibly protective of his cards and information, never showing if he can avoid it. This obviously bothers a few of the other players.

Another new player, a 50 yr old, good player, very experienced, has on occasion at showdown asked to see his cards, and had them turned up by the dealer. The "protective player" never said anything about it, but, as PP had relinquished the pot, I thought pulling IWTSTC was in poor form.

Similar situation last night, one old-time regular in the game goes to showdown with "PP". PP bets, OTR raises, PP reluctantly calls. OTR shows boat, and PP goes to muck. OTR, rather innocently askes if he can see his cards. I try to slow him down a bit and tell him, he CAN see them, but its very poor etiquette to ask, and almost unheard of in a heads-up pot.

Fifty-year old says you have the right to see what the other player is drawing with. I tell him the rule is to prevent collusion, not provide information, and you SHOULD be accusing someone of cheating by asking to see their cards.

Does this ever occur in your games? How is the rule applied/enforced?

[ericmalone]

Could the older player have gotten confused by the rule? If he called the final bet from the PP then he had the right to see his cards, but not the other way around. Right?

[Small Fry]

Basically any player can request to see a called (whether it was the betting hand or calling hand) hand at showdown.

These players are abusing the rule. Personally I would change the rule to only allow the request to be granted if collusion / cheating is expected. A player could still request to know what the other player had but unless there is indications of cheating then there is no requirement to show. So under my rules pp could either show his cards or vebally tell the other player what he had, or he could just silently muck them, but the dealer would not turn them over.

If the players still want to see what pp has then make sure they follow rules of showing hands at show down. So if PP initiates action he can be forced to show first. This can slow the game a little but it is within the rules.

also, if pp is a poor player prone to chasing I would take the other players aside and explain to them that continuesly requesting to see pp's cards is going to give him cause to fold, rather than call and give away his money.

[TexRef]

[ QUOTE ]
These players are abusing the rule.

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[Bossman9]

Sorry....Can someone refresh me as to what the IWTSTC stands for??

Thanks

[Paul B.]

I Want To See Those Cards. Throw the cards in the muck.

[SNOWBALL]

I would never allow this rule to exist in any home game I played in. Unfortunately, it's in use in the LA cardrooms I frequent. It really sucks, a lot.

1. It's abusive to the player that it's used on
2. It slows the game down
3. It serves no purpose.

[pfapfap]

There is no way I would allow this in my home games. This is a ridiculous rule and should be removed from all cardrooms. If someone in my home thinks somebody else is cheating, that person should come talk with me about it and we'll see what we can see.

[Wongboy]

[ QUOTE ]
There is no way I would allow this in my home games. This is a ridiculous rule and should be removed from all cardrooms. If someone in my home thinks somebody else is cheating, that person should come talk with me about it and we'll see what we can see.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFMFT

This rule varies by room in B&M locations, where you are playing with strangers that you do not know. There is no way that it should be used at a home game, unless your home game is really more like an underground casino.

If used, I would require the requestor to say the following "I think you are colluding with player ___. My evidence is ___, ___, and ___. If the accuser is correct, then the cheating parties get a beat down similar to the scene from the cops game in Rounders.

If the accuser is incorrect, then he gets a 2 game suspension and also must leave immediately. If the accuser is incorrect a second time, then he is asked to find a different game and is no longer welcome here.

[PantsOnFire]

[ QUOTE ]
I Want To See Those Cards. Throw the cards in the muck.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's more commonly IWTSTH - I want to see that hand.