How can I punish super aggresive players??

[Dill3227]

How can I punish a player that is trying to steal alot?

Example: $4/180. Blind 150/300/25. I have a stack size around 12K, villian has about the same. He is super aggresive. Raising 4+ times per trip around the table.

So lets say I am on the button and villain raises to 900. I am holding KJ we will say. Now my stack is to big to push right? Should I just call? Should I resteal with a raise to like 2K? What if I do just call and SB and BB fold, and he fires out 1600 on the flop and I have hit nothing?

What about hands like AK, or a small PP? big PP?

Just wants some ideas of how to make the super agressive person pay.

Thanks, Dill3227

[illini43]

You can call in position against super aggros. Also, when the stack sizes are good, restealing is another good weapon to use against super lags.

Depending on if the LAG bluffs more than one street, I might be inclined to float on a missed flop if he has shown he will give up unimproved on the turn.

If you have AK/mid-upper pocket pair, I'm definitely re-raising prelfop. In your example, I would make it 3000 with something standard like JJ+/AK. With KJo, I would call on the button and play postflop poker.

[MJBuddy]

QandA tried to play back at me in the challenge when I was raising about that much.

Anyway, I had Ace rag, raised in UTG+1. He minraised AT and a SS in the blinds jammed. He was priced in to call against KK. Moral of the story? Remember there are 9 people at the table. Not two. Don't put your chips at a position where you can get punished hard by players with position on you.

I hate min raises, I love jams. I love jams even if I can't call. Why? Because next hand I'll raise the same. How many times are you willing to jam to steal? How many times are you going to waste half your stack to play back at me with 6 people left to act.

See where this goes? By playing back, you effectively make yourself tighter. I'm not stopping unless the entire table starts to play back at me. This means calling and hoping this induces a bunch of people to call behind you. And then the fun part is that you can get squeezed, and you can still lose the pot with a mediocre hand, and you can't have pot control, etc.


Now, for your example. A flat call here is fine. You get position. In the blinds a reraise is fine. You might get called, but you can CBet your troubles away most of the time..

[Dill3227]

The thing that was really frustrating me was then I was just flat calling on the button to the CO raises/steals. The SB and BB would fold and it was just me (button) and villain (CO) so I had position. But like everytime he would fire a large bet on the flop. Like say the pot was 1600 going into the flop and he would bet 1200 on the flop. I didn't hit anything on the flop. So now what? He probably is just throwing out a C-bet, but I dont have anything either.

[bogey1]

[ QUOTE ]
The thing that was really frustrating me was then I was just flat calling on the button to the CO raises/steals. The SB and BB would fold and it was just me (button) and villain (CO) so I had position. But like everytime he would fire a large bet on the flop. Like say the pot was 1600 going into the flop and he would bet 1200 on the flop. I didn't hit anything on the flop. So now what? He probably is just throwing out a C-bet, but I dont have anything either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, aggression like that kills me too. I basically donked of 50k in chips (1/3rd of my stack) trying to play back at one of these guys. He just came back over the top again and I had to assume he'd hit something. Calling all my chips with a whiffed KQ or some such is just lame, but pushing KQ for a massive overbet isn't much less lame.

I try to just play tight and defend myself when I have a really good hand with a big raise preflop or if I hit the flop. I can't stop him from running over everyone else, but I can try to make my stand easier. The problem of course if you're constantly getting decent calling hands that whiff.

[MJBuddy]

Are you guys sure you're not playing against me here? :P

I mean, this is my line past level 5 nearly every time.

The money made from these guys are when you flat call with monsters and PPs. You can either gamble that they missed on their CBet and come over the top with PP, or let them hang themselves with monsters.

In the challenge a guy got fed up with me raising into him. I actually had a good hand (KQ) and flopped a Q. He checked out of the blinds, I fired a 2/3 pot bet (my bets stay large regardless. I can't give away my hand and I just have to hope, like you guys, they're frustrated enough to play back at the wrong time). He rejammed over me. I was getting 2 to 1 to call for a dominating chip lead and I'm ahead because PP, QJ, etc. run this same line thinking "FINALLY GOT HIM".


Of course he flipped up QQ and I got coolered out. But I make that call all day because KQ is very high on my range of raising hands, so I have to assume I'm ahead if I get called by a frustrated player. I works way more than it doesn't, mind you :P.

[illini43]

With a stack of 11K postflop and facing a 1200 bet on a whiffed flop with KJo, you can either:

1) Fold
2) Call (Float) and look to take the pot away on the turn
3) Raise to 3600-4000.

Depending on the level of aggression villian has, you could make a case for all 3 of these options.

[Yoshi63]

[ QUOTE ]
With KJo, I would call on the button and play postflop poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't really understand what MJ was saying in his post, but I think he at least touched on what I'm going to say... so hopefully I'm not just repeating.

The biggest problem I see with flat-calling against an obvious lag, is that everything about the hand becomes very transparent. Assuming the LAG isn't terribly sloppy and can be expected to lay down a hand pre-flop after opening, you put yourself in a rather vulnerable situation. If the blinds are paying any attention (and are decent thinking players), you may get squeezed a fair ammount here.

If I am in the blinds here, and have the same read on the LAG as you do (he's opening 4 times an orbit... I think I would), and I see a player simply flatcall in position - I am generally thinking "squeeze" with a gigantic range of cards a huge % of the time. I can be fairly confident the flatter isn't calling here, besides the rare instance he was setting a trap with AA (and many players won't do this ever). Generally even the LAG won't call w/o the top ~10% of hands, and when his opening range is 50%, that's only a 20% calling frequency.

Just something to be aware of.

[Dill3227]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you guys sure you're not playing against me here? :P

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. Not you, but it was another 2+2er.

[illini43]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With KJo, I would call on the button and play postflop poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't really understand what MJ was saying in his post, but I think he at least touched on what I'm going to say... so hopefully I'm not just repeating.

The biggest problem I see with flat-calling against an obvious lag, is that everything about the hand becomes very transparent. Assuming the LAG isn't terribly sloppy and can be expected to lay down a hand pre-flop after opening, you put yourself in a rather vulnerable situation. If the blinds are paying any attention (and are decent thinking players), you may get squeezed a fair ammount here.

If I am in the blinds here, and have the same read on the LAG as you do (he's opening 4 times an orbit... I think I would), and I see a player simply flatcall in position - I am generally thinking "squeeze" with a gigantic range of cards a huge % of the time. I can be fairly confident the flatter isn't calling here, besides the rare instance he was setting a trap with AA (and many players won't do this ever). Generally even the LAG won't call w/o the top ~10% of hands, and when his opening range is 50%, that's only a 20% calling frequency.

Just something to be aware of.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very good point that needed to be mentioned.

I do like what MJ was saying about not getting all caught up in being the one to standup to the bully if the situation isn't right. I guess the most important thing to do is to make sure you aren't changing your game to simply combat the one LAG at the table. As someone mentioned earlier, there are 7 other players at the table as well.