Correct call or not?

[ZoolooZ]

In the middle stages of a tournament the average chips is $13000 and i have $4000 blinds are $200/$400 with $50 anti.

Its my BB and it folds to the SB who calls, i have J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and check.

The flop comes 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

The small blind bets $800, i call (i know this was a mistake and i should have raised)

The turn brings A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

The small blind moves all in.

I think for a while and think there is a very wide range of hands he could eb doing this with so quickly use pokerstove to work out my equity. Here are the results

Board: 4h Jc 8h Ah
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 52.422% 49.07% 03.35% 2958 202.00 { A7s-A2s, J5s+, A9o-A2o, J5o+ }
Hand 1: 47.578% 44.23% 03.35% 2666 202.00 { JhTs }

so i call and no heart comes on the turn and he wins with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] which is fair enough as it was one of the hands i put him on.

But do u feel that the call is correct. Concidering tthe odds. or should i wait for a better sittuation? bear in mind i am getting short.

[Kagiedog]

Given how short u were, I think that a call is correct. You are definately getting odds and probably cannot wait for a huge edge. Also -- as you acknowledged -- your play on the flop was a huge mistake. You MUST shove on the flop if you are going to play this hand with your stack.

[Coz]

I would have shoved preflop, he is indicating weakness by just completing you are probably ahead of his limping range so I would shove. As played shove flop! As played I would probably call, your most likley behind but you really have nothing else to do.

[BiiiiigChips]

I'm shoving all-in pf with the given situation. On the flop though I can't see checking then calling a bet that's 25% of your stack. You really need to have it at all-in pf on the flop or be done with the hand.

[MJBuddy]

I think a shove pre here is standard.

[Manup]

Since your money was in already you took the safe route and checked, however with TP on the flop you have to shove even if you get nothing else from this hand but another orbit.

[LennyKGB]

As stated, you should have shoved PF or on the flop, but ignoring that...I don't think the call is correct at all. You are throwing good money after bad. Obviously he could be bluffing, but it is MUCH, MUCH MORE LIKELY you are way behind in one of the scenarios:
A. caught his Ace (which he did)
B. has a set of 8's or 4's (less likely but possible)
C. caught his flush and thought he could get a call by shoving to look like a bluff
D. has two pair (limped PF with J4 or J8)
E. has KJ or QJ

His line would be consistent with nearly any of the above, and you are WAY behind all of the above (and drawing dead to the flush).

Just because you are very short and know you made a mistake on the flop doesn't mean you have to just ship the rest of your chips knowing you are very likely behind/drawing dead. In tournament poker, you can come back from nearly any short stack if you keep plugging and catch some breaks. In one of Phil Gordon's recent final tables at a WSOP circuit event (I think he finished in the top 3), he was down to something like under $600 in chips at one point and he came back to be the chip leader.

Calling off the rest of your chips in "desperation" is seldom correct. Better strategy would have been to think "wow, I should have raised the flop, and now I let him catch up." I'm probably behind and just muck your cards, bear down and try to find a good spot to ship it in and double up. With blinds at $200/$400 you still would have had approx. $2800 (7x) which is enough to steal blinds PF with a shove. Just my thoughts...

[illini43]

Preflop: I'm fine with checking or pushing.

Flop: You need to push this. He could easily be betting with air, and you need chips, so this is an easy push on the flop.

[ZoolooZ]

I absolutely agree that i should have shoved on the flop, but totaly disagree with shoveing preflop.

A. because i was going to shove on flop if he checks which i figure is likely concidering his limp.

B. After the blinds pass i will still have $3200 in chips which is enough for me to wait for a better hand.

This is the perfect situation for a stop and go. (i know this isnt a proper stop and go as that is done out of possition, but i cant think of an name for this play)

unfortunetly when i floped top pair my thinking got all messed up. i played the flop shockingly and did not do the correct thing.

[illini43]

3200 isn't a whole lot of chips to work with at this stage, you should NOT be complacent with 8 BB's and an M of 3.2 at this point; you need to take every edge you can get here.

Pushing this flop (or another non-threatening board) is fine if he checks to you. I would just call this a 'Push'.