Overbetting Pots NLCASH

[Indiana]

This is a technique that I don't really grasp that well but I've been seeing a lot of HU cash players overbet pots with big hands. Can we discuss the reasons for doing this and how this may affect metagame? Here's a hand example from the jsnipes video(at 25:30):

snipes has 9Ts out of position and calls a minraise from the btn. flop is J6Q rainbow and he checks, btn checks. Turn brings down the K for his str8 and he bets 2x the pot roughly. For me, I'd just bet like a little less than pot to get some action. Why overbet?

[IronFly]

I guess this plays differently at higher levels.

At .5/1 I've never seen someone call an overbet.

[MagicKK]

Perhaps to show weakness, or to give the vibe that his overbet is a scare bet that doesn't want to get called. I see a lot of players make this maneouvre in HU SNG's and I must admit I sometimes attempt this play myself just to mix things up.

I'd only make this play mind you depending on what my reads are on the villain. If he's a weak player I probably wouldn't bet so much, but if he was a calling station or was re-raising a lot then I guess you're making maximum value by overbetting the pot.

[Indiana]

doesn't it also depend on the board? I mean if its very very likely that he has a big hand and u overbet then he'll give action right?

[MasterLJ]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess this plays differently at higher levels.

At .5/1 I've never seen someone call an overbet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have and do call them, but with decreasing regularity these days. It's almost always the nuts or near nuts in lower stake games.

[MaxRaises]

I overbet pots to psychologically spin my opponent's game.

I will do what I like to call "set up bets" where I overbet a pot early on in the session and show a total bluff. Then I will just play my normal game for a while. Later on in the match when I have a huge monster, I will overbet the pot and my opponent will surely remember my gross overbet bluff from earlier on in the session. This strategy is suprisingly effective.

[jsnipes28]

[ QUOTE ]
doesn't it also depend on the board? I mean if its very very likely that he has a big hand and u overbet then he'll give action right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that is more or less the idea. I mainly use it to punish loose passive players who suck at value betting themselves. In this example, if he turned a K, he's never folding; if he slowplayed a hand he's obviously not folding; if he has pair+sd he's not folding;if he's got air he's folding either way.

So the idea is just to charge him and kinda confuse him a bit and also build the pot (if we overbet the pot by 3bb on the turn (as opposed to betting POT-1bb) then it's an extra 8bb we gain on the river assuming he calls (or we can overbet again [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img])

Another instance I use it is against frequent BN limpers when I flop strong hands. Oftentimes you encounter players who limp strong hands like 99/TT etc.

So they limp, I check T4o, flop comes down 744 (assume 5/10 1k stacks to make things easy). I bet 25 or 30 on the flop, he calls. Now on the turn there is 70 or 80 in pot instead of 60. I bet 110 into 80 instead of 60 into 60. Now on the river there is 310 in the pot instead 180. If I have an aggro image (where i've been caught bluffing) I might shove or overbet again like 420 (instead of potting 180) and I get called a lot. And you can always just bet like 220 into 310 and get called too, but since he's never folding the flop or turn w/ a pair, it's really easy to inflate the pot just slightly overbetting the pot and if you get paid off on the river it's huge.

[Indiana]

[ QUOTE ]

I overbet pots to psychologically spin my opponent's game.

I will do what I like to call "set up bets" where I overbet a pot early on in the session and show a total bluff. Then I will just play my normal game for a while. Later on in the match when I have a huge monster, I will overbet the pot and my opponent will surely remember my gross overbet bluff from earlier on in the session. This strategy is suprisingly effective.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was the metagame I was thinking about, and yes, it should be effective. In this particular hand, it was the first time that jsnipes had overbet, so he had something else in mind i suppose. I guess there should be 2-3 different reasons to overet, one of which you mention here which is the meta aspects.

[cwar]

Strassa wrote a great article about this if someone can find it.

[jsnipes28]

also overbets from tarded shortstacks are much weaker than from pretty much any full stacks (barring the obv insane aggro ones) and i find to often be bluffs. Especially in situations like you open 3bb they minraise to 5bb you call and flop 2nd pair and they shove for 2.5x pot or whatever.