JJ facing UTG raise in UB $120 Bounty

[whynot?]

guys

dont have the ub hh here but need some advice

down to 60 on the ub 120 bounty tourney - sitting with 10k chips which is about average

in any case, i've been playing a pretty TAG game and think thats recognized - i've reraised limpers several times, shown only good hands etc. Villain here has really been unremarakble - ABC kind of poker that i could tell.

Blinds are 400/200 with a 50 ante so I have an effective M of a little less then 10.

So the hand in question - I get JJ on the button - villain is UTG and has me slightly covered and makes it 1200 to go - whats your move here?

I think this is tricky as a raise of an utg raiser makes me effectively pot committed, a fold just cant be right, but a flat call seems too weak. Help? how do you all play these?

I'll post the flop and turn together next, but really want views on how to play this pre first - i tend to screw these up no matter how i play it

[registrar]

I wouldn't raise less than a push. I think a push is reasonable but I'd generally just call - it depends to a certain extent on the blinds, their stacks and whether they'd ever squeeze or call light.

[rppkoz]

Call. If you were slightly shallower I'd shove, but with 25 BB's and position against an ABC player I'd call.

[Yoshi63]

I think calling is fine. It would be pretty reckless for the blinds to squeeze into an ABC UTG raiser, followed by a relatively tight caller. If I'm in the blinds I'm not squeezing w/o the goods.

[whynot?]

do you all think a min raise to 3k works here? otherwise im not sure i like any flop excluding one with a jack

[nath]

[ QUOTE ]
do you all think a min raise to 3k works here?

[/ QUOTE ]
it works if you like handing your opponent 3k

[whynot?]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
do you all think a min raise to 3k works here?

[/ QUOTE ]
it works if you like handing your opponent 3k

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so say more - my thought is if he pushes you really narrow his range and can fold - if the flop hits and he has qq/kk you have a better chance to outplay him given an ace on the flop (which of course it did in this case). So nath - do you push call or fold pre?

[nath]

If you raise to 3k, he's pushing like 100% of the time. So all you're doing is giving away 3k in chips if you decide to raise/fold.

I mix it up. Sometimes I call, sometimes I shove; it depends on what I think of the villain and his range in this spot.

[Todd Terry]

I got knocked out of 2 of these $120 bounty events in very similar situations in the last week. Had TT and 99, basically same stacks and blinds. I called an UTG raise in middle and late postion. 2 players saw the flop. Both times, flop came out 7 high rainbow. Villian bet, I pushed, got called with AA. GG me. (Which happened to be the first 2 times in UB history that AA held up).

After it happened twice, I tried to come up with some way of playing the hand other than how I had played it. Folding an overpair here after the flop just seems ridiculous (as an aside, I'm fairly confident the top internet players never fold overpairs under any circumstances ever).

Is my play better than a preflop shove if 3 low cards come out? If they're folding AK or AQ to the post-flop shove (which they probably wouldn't, but might), then it would seem to be. If they're not, it's identical, other than I can claim to have gotten my money in better on the flop than preflop.

If an overcard flops, am I getting away from the hand? A or K, definitely. Q, probably. J? I doubt it. So it's better than shoving if an A or K flops if our opponent had AK or a pair better than ours, otherwise it is worse.

When the stacks are this deep, postflop you're better off being out of position if you were the initial raiser, because you can act first and put your opponent's whole stack at risk by betting 1/4 or 1/3 of your own. And your continuation bet tells your opponent absolutely nothing about your hand, so he knows no more than he did before the flop about your hand. The in position caller has no clue if his hand is good, and there's nothing he can do about it.