AA on the BU Early 180

MJBuddy · #1 07-23-2007, 03:49 PM

What do you guys think of this hand? I was very interested in this hand as it played out and afterward felt it was good for this forum as a result.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP3 (t1720)
CO (t1430)
Hero (t1450)
SB (t1420)
BB (t1680)
UTG (t910)
UTG+1 (t1600)
MP1 (t2200)
MP2 (t1040)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls t20, 4 folds, CO raises to t100, Hero calls t100, 2 folds, UTG calls t80.

Flop: (t330) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, CO bets t260, Hero calls t260, UTG calls t260.

Turn: (t1110) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

River: (t1110) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets t550 (All-In), CO folds, Hero calls t550.

Final Pot: t2210

ItalianFX · #2 07-23-2007, 03:55 PM

Why are you playing it so passively? Reraise preflop or at least raise the flop.

McMelchior · #3 07-23-2007, 04:01 PM

You have to raise the flop. There's a str8 draw and a flush draw out there, and UTG is getting real nice odds.

If a club, a T, a 7, and even a J comes off on the turn and there's action at least you'll have to consider folding. That's 18 out of 47 cards or almost 40% of the time!

MJBuddy · #4 07-23-2007, 04:06 PM

Ok, here's why I thought the hand was interesting. Thought process for streets:

Because we're very early, I haven't been three-betting much and I don't want people to scare off. I also don't mind any more callers - this is the part of the MTT where I take risks and will allow a lot of people to play in order to get a big stack to throw around, etc. So I called. I have position, I have the nuts, I figure I can extract their stacks later.

Flop:
UTG Checked. I have no idea what that means. CO fires a fairly large bet out. Reraising, once again, might scare him off. If he has an overpair he'll fire a blank turn. If he has overcards and catches even better. With his raise pre, I doubt he's showing down a 9 here unless he hit a set. If he has an underpair, he's folding to my reraise anyway. I choose to call, UTG calls too, which isn't great due to the draws I might be dragging him along with.

Turn: Good and bad. Good that no draws will have gotten there, bad if UTG picked up top pair and chose to call with that, and bad because CO shuts down if he thinks I called with a 9. I could bet here, but then if UTG jams his short stack I'm stuck to calling and I might be behind. If neither of them have the 9, they'll both see monsters and fold. I choose to check and hope either I can induce a bluff on the river or a big card that CO will catch.

River: UTG Jam. Could be a 9, but can be a stone bluff now that he thinks the 9 scared us. CO thinks a while then folds (at this point I'm putting him on a PP or strong Ace, and I'm so sad he chose to fold). Of course I'm calling.

How's my line?

MJBuddy · #5 07-23-2007, 04:07 PM

And no, I don't have to raise the flop because UTG is still not getting the right price on draws unless he's drawing to both.

BarryLyndon · #6 07-23-2007, 04:08 PM

We all know (or should know) by now why he's be played preflop so passively.

I definitely think a flop raise is in order here. Given the way you played this preflop, JJ+ is getting it in and you have a semi-decent chance of getting it in against 1010 as well. By playing the hand so passively, you give the very likely J10 a chance to catch. If you are thinking "Well, if CO has QQ, J10 has two less outs," then lol, welcome to the hell that is my trappy mind. But even I'm not that bad.

Also, the pot is nice and fat by now and if you take it down, you're happy.

Anyway, on the turn, MJ, you are thinking that if you bet, you take your opponent off a hand or he calls with a 9 and maybe CO will pump the rest of his stack in with a bluff if he misses. But if a club, 7, or Q comes out, you're [censored], which is why you should have just tried to get it in on the flop. Passive play / checking here here is just asking for a bad river decision where you are probably not going to be able to get away from AA / regretting that you let opponent catch while you chip stack is now cutdown.

Also, this goes against "the plan." Let's say you want to give your opponent some rope on a card-to-card play if he has J10 or Q10 or a flush draw. OK, so, whatever the [censored] are you doing giving him a free card now. Bad. Get it in there and he will call even more behind. If he has a 9, well, that is just a consequence of your plan.

River is standard, I suppose, I hope your opponent didn't have 222 or some [censored]. Chances are he has Jc10c and you are happy, because I can definitely see that line. But, meh. FPS

Barry

footnbaseball · #7 07-23-2007, 04:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
And no, I don't have to raise the flop because UTG is still not getting the right price on draws unless he's drawing to both.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just not true. Calling getting a little over 3:1 and 2 other people in the pot in UTG's spot is hardly a mistake with a flush or oesd, and definitely not if he happens to have a pair with his draw. Your not going to put another chip into the pot if a straight or flush hits?

EDIT: yea i guess pair+draw is pretty unlikely...but my point still stands

SonofDjugashvili · #8 07-23-2007, 04:50 PM

The last time I induced a "bluff" with AA, I got stacked of course. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] That flop is an action flop so I would have liked to have seen a raise. There are just so many hands that are possible (all str8 & flush draws, overpairs, top pair) that will pay you off, and 10/10+ is liable to shove AI over your raise. Doesn't that flop bet just scream overpair? I don't mind your pre-flop line, but once that action flop comes, I'd like more aggression from you.

MJBuddy · #9 07-23-2007, 04:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And no, I don't have to raise the flop because UTG is still not getting the right price on draws unless he's drawing to both.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just not true. Calling getting a little over 3:1 and 2 other people in the pot in UTG's spot is hardly a mistake with a flush or oesd, and definitely not if he happens to have a pair with his draw. Your not going to put another chip into the pot if a straight or flush hits?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're playing his cards very face up and at the same time discounting the heaps of equity I lose in the long run by pushing them both out for a small pot. Until he calls, I have no way to know he might be on a draw. A much riskier move is the turn check than the flop call. He IS still getting a bad price. CO was probably CBetting so I am the only place to get any implied odds. Couple that with the fact that due to his short stack, the proper move on a draw here is to basically just jam either here or open jam any turn due to effective stacks. I'm not saying he will play it correctly, but regardless, if I raise he should still be calling here DUE to effective stack; I want to give him rope to hang himself here, regardless of his hand.

hamnegger · #10 07-23-2007, 04:54 PM

i like it post flop. u r either way ahead or way behind. so let the hands u beat bet their chips off to you. lindgren advocates playingf aces this way alot.

i don't like preflop. its early so fish are still swimming you have a limper already who will now call and others may be tempted to join the party. id pop to 400. fancy play not good in this spot.