$4/$8 B&M -- 89s in BB

[WhiteKnight]

We have just sat down at this full table during the hand prior. It was capped preflop six-way and ended up going to showdown. Nobody had what you would consider a standard capping hand, and pocket sixes ended up turning a boat for teh monies.

Villain is a young (~19ish) kid who seems to play tight and reasonably well. I have had several encounters with him during significant hands and I'm pretty sure he respects my play. All others are unknown.

We are in the BB and rap with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] after 4 limpers and a completed SB (six handed).

Flop: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 SB)
Hero checks, Villain bets, 3 callers, Hero calls (five handed).

Turn: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5.5 BB)
Hero bets, Villain calls, 2 callers (four handed).

River: T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (9.5 BB)
Hero bets, Villain calls, 1 caller.

Questions:

1) Do we find a preflop raise here? Is your answer different due to the heavy preflop action during the hand prior?

2) Is leading out this turn and river standard, or is it maybe right to go for a check/raise at some point?

[Scary_Tiger]

Why are we betting turn?

[Niediam]

I don't raise preflop except perhaps once in a while for image reasons. Doing so is going to be around even EV.

I think flop is close. The fact that we are closing the action and having the backdoor flush is what makes it close to me. Otherwise I definately wouldn't play. I don't like drawing to the third nuts when you hit. If the game is the type where villians always raise AK preflop then that of course helps with the call.

I don't bet the turn. You certainly are not getting the field to fold and you don't know if you are going to get enough callers to make bet the value. Plus when you hit the river you can't really consider checkraising.

[chesspain]

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Why are we betting turn?

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[HoneyBadger]

Flop is an easy call imo.

Turn bet is silly, villain showed strength and is to you immediate left; if you bet and he raises, the other will fold and you have to put in 2 BB on a draw when behind OOP. A check and call is far superior here imo.

River standard value bet, can't c/r after the turn donk. If you had not done that, I'm still not sure if you should c/r here. He's not stupid, he sees you calling twice and a very obvious straight hitting. So leading is probably best.

No I wouldn't raise from BB. From button, yes, but not when we are 2nd to act on the flop. I don't want initiative then.

[PokerBob]

betting this turn is correct if you KNOW you're gonna get at least 3 callers and none of them have better clubs. you don't know that, so check.

some players can raise this preflop. at this point i don't think you should be.

[dedenburn]

I'd probably check turn...getting raised sucks if it knocks your other callers out, while a bet from villan gives us a chance to c/r if we get enough callers. If not, we can call to river.

Definitely lead out river.

[fishbutt]

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Turn bet is silly, villain showed strength and is to you immediate left; if you bet and he raises, the other will fold and you have to put in 2 BB on a draw when behind OOP.


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I agree with this.

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A check and call is far superior here imo.

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I disagree here. You have a straight-flush draw! Assuming villain bets and everyone else calls, you should be raising for value since villain acts right behind you and most of these players would likely call a 2nd bet if they've already got 1 in, which makes check-raising for value correct.

[HoneyBadger]

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A check and call is far superior here imo.

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I disagree here. You have a straight-flush draw! Assuming villain bets and everyone else calls, you should be raising for value since villain acts right behind you and most of these players would likely call a 2nd bet if they've already got 1 in, which makes check-raising for value correct.

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If he bets and all call, often this doesn't happen, but suppose it does. In that case we have a theoretical 15 out draw, but not all of these might be good. With 15 outs we need 3 opponents, who all call, for it to be profitable; i.e. everybody. But if everybody calls a bet, and everybody calls a field c/r, I doubt you have 15 outs. As soon as we drop to 11 outs it's no longer profitable to raise, nor is it when just 1 person decides not to call. I think it's very thin, and risky, and only serves to increase variance. But yes, it can be considered if he bets and all call. I usually don't do it though.

[belloc]

Why is this an easy flop call? The pot is small, most of our outs are dirty.