Home game variance - small rant - but I welcome all players! (LONG)

[pismeyer]

This is kind of long if you care to read.

Variance = A measure of the dispersion of a set of data points around their mean value. It is a mathematical expectation of the average squared deviations from the mean.

A lot posts here in the Home Poker board are complaints or rants about getting beat by non-superior hands and the people playing the non-superior hands are knowing they are dominated but still manage to catch a 2-outer and beat your pocket pair (or whatever you may be holding).

This post welcomes these players. I want to explain to everyone reading this and it may be hard to stomach, but you want these players to be at your games. No matter how obnoxious, how donkish, how utterly stupid some of their calls and bets seem, we want them there. And you want to invite them back game after game and tell them that they play very well, remind them over and over again that a suited 2-4 is one of the best hands in poker. Let them play whatever hands they want. How you handle a "beat" from another player, friend, relative or co-worker is your business.

Don’t complain over and over again that it’s ridiculous; it’s part of the game. I used to believe that J9s was “a secret weapon”. WTF was I thinking? So when another player turns over 72o for show down, don’t complain or whine or laugh. These guys know what they are doing, right?

Home Tournament – Game #1
5th level blinds 200/400

I’ve played tight all game (knowing the type of players in the game). Made three other calls out of position, folded all three after catching air after the flop. I have T900 in chips and I’m on the button with - 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

UTG folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button Raise T400, Blinds fold, MP1 folds, MP2 re-raises All-in (T950 more), MP3 folds, CO moves all-in is covering.

I’ve now reached a milestone in this game and with the pot-committal type odds plus the known variance and calling range of these two players, I quickly shove the remaining chips I have in the pot.

MP2 turds over K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
CO turds over 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Muhahahaha – I have them right where I want them! All mighty poker gods, o how I love thee! (88o = 58.44%, K4s = 30.66%, 72o = 10.48%)

Flop is – 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Turn is – Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
River – A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

When I asked MP2 why he pushed all in, “I thought I could catch two pair and take it down”.

When I asked CO why he pushed all in, “72o is my favorite hand” – And yes, both players were very serious about the cards they played and how they play them.

MP2 is a regular at my game and surprisingly his ROI is around 83%. He’s a close friend of mine and just likes to get out of the house once a month and splash some chips in poker. CO has played only one other time and in the previous game managed to be all-in by the fourth hand with J2o (he lost).

Home Tournament – Game #2
4th level blinds 150/300

I did not play this hand.

I don’t remember the exact betting preflop on this hand but it comes down to three players all-in.

Original raiser (late position) holds K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (67.20%)
SB holds Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (16.06%)
BB holds J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (16.40)% – yes, he called the all-ins. I doubled checked his call because I was dealing the hand and couldn’t clearly discern his statement with all players ooooh’ing and ahhhhh’ing the QQ v KK. When BB turned over J6h, the entire table went silent and then a collective “What the f*ck, …over?”

Flop is: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Late position player is already breaking into his “running man” dance…

Turn is: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB is getting up from table now…

River is: Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Late position player is in full dance mode now and is reaching for the chips. However, and with a sudden roar, BB stands up and screams “SPARTA!!!”, and was very proud of his accomplishment to say the least. Sneaky little flush [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

When I asked BB why he called the all-ins with J6s, “Two reasons, I had the chips (which he did) and I had position” Huh? I’m not even sure he looked at his cards before the flop.

BB is another regular at my game. Very erratic player, plays any two cards, really loves anything suited, and plays big hands terribly after the flop. He is tied with the point’s leader in our season but his ROI is only 1.88%. He placed 2nd in the game. He has never won a game and we have just past our 20th game for the season. He actually said out loud after the game, “What do I have to do to win a game?”

I’ve hosted all the games so far in our first season. I love playing cards; it’s a fantastic game and hobby for me. I’ve got notes on all the regular players, betting habits, verbally declared favorite hands, hands they beat me with and how they played them. I keep notes on the big hands I’ve won, especially against our solid players in our group. I’m an engineer by trade and have a pretty good grasp of pot odds and implied odds, position, percentages, my wife’s birthday and anniversary, etc. However, the only thing I can’t compute is another player’s mindset. That’s my only complaint, that’s my only rant.

I’m the other player that is tied for first place in points for our season. At the beginning of the season I couldn’t catch a card to save me. I was running bad, very bad, went into a deep learning curve about variance. Re-read all my books, replayed a lot of critical hands from the notes I took on the other players. I evaluated and concluded that some of my bet sizes were very weak. Read on this forum and many others strategy and very useful information (Big thanks for 2+2). At one point I was playing scared, which is the mortal dagger to the heart of any competitor. I even considered playing very loose (like all in pre-flop with J6s). Over the course of the season I’ve clawed my way back. I stuck to my guns and have played ABC, Tight aggressive to Semi-loose aggressive poker. I am by no way a solid player, yet. I still make mistakes but I don’t mind learning as I go. My ROI is -2.82%, it was way worse after the first 10 games but I’m gaining momentum and I’m very proud (of myself) for getting out of the infernal hole. I’ve tightened up my game and it’s starting to show.

As I type this post, I have scheduled another tournament in two weeks. I’ll casually talk to some of those players I mentioned earlier about “the hand you played against so and so”, and I will be inviting them back with a smile on my face.

<font color="blue"> “Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.” - Sun Tzu 500bc </font>

P [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[mr.spam]

Hmmmz, when I hear all these stories, I really should re-consider the "donkieness" of the players i play against. Their ranges may be a little weird at some point, but calling all-in's with 72o is WAY out of what they would do in tournaments.


On the other hand, in cashgames, I see some of my friends that could hold practically any two cards at any point in the game which makes it a bit tougher to beat them. I normally play tight untill i have over 2 buy-in's, at which point I stop playing tight and call smallish raises preflop with stuff like 74s, knowing that the small fee preflop isn't enough to keep me from winning and shipping when i hit, 'cause I know that I can easily outplay them postflop.


And yes, I do want people like this at my homegames, they make it that much more fun. They can be lucky sometimes, but in the end, they're the people who give you their money. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
And you want to invite them back game after game and tell them that they play very well, remind them over and over again that a suited 2-4 is one of the best hands in poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

WHAT?!? You DARE to mock The Power of 4?? I can't read the rest of this drivel...


well, kay, I'll read this part:
"How you handle a "beat" from another player, friend, relative or co-worker is what determines what kind of poker player, and poker person, you are.. as well as what kind of poker future you're likely to have."

I fixed this, but I'm not reading the rest of this drivel.... i'm NOT!

[pismeyer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And you want to invite them back game after game and tell them that they play very well, remind them over and over again that a suited 2-4 is one of the best hands in poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

WHAT?!? You DARE to mock The Power of 4?? I can't read the rest of this drivel...


well, kay, I'll read this part:
"How you handle a "beat" from another player, friend, relative or co-worker is what determines what kind of poker player, and poker person, you are.. as well as what kind of poker future you're likely to have."

I fixed this, but I'm not reading the rest of this drivel.... i'm NOT!

[/ QUOTE ]

I forgot about the power of 4!! Please forgive me...You mean 2-4 suited is gawdly, right?

Thanks for the edit Larry, and just so you know, I was typing it with my mouth closed. No spiddle was set forth from my being...

P [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[marty_palin]

Ok I agree with your post, but I don't think Home Games is the right forum. I play with my friends, so not really anyone I'm trying to butcher and clean out of cash/ We play for fun and the money just gives the game a value. If I go round telling my friends they have to play 42 suited to an all in - when they realise by watching TV or playing online I've been feeding them [censored] while taking small amounts of their money how do you think that is oing to go down.

I think your rule applies under certain conditions - casinos and home games not with friends. After all if I can help my mates become better players it will improve the game right?

I just cant agree with this view but I'm not as ruthless as some I guess.

[Zetack]

Did I accidently wander into the Beginners forum?

[marty_palin]

[ QUOTE ]
Did I accidently wander into the Beginners forum?

[/ QUOTE ]

No this is the Home Poker forum, if you look at the top of the page it tells you where you are...

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Did I accidently wander into the Beginners forum?

[/ QUOTE ]

No this is the Home Poker forum, if you look at the top of the page it tells you where you are...

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for clearing that up Marty.

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WHAT?!? You DARE to mock The Power of 4?? I can't read the rest of this drivel...

[/ QUOTE ]

I forgot about the power of 4!! Please forgive me...

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, pis, you're a HP homie and I have to look out for you. We wouldn't want this kind of thing to happen to you...

Never forget- you mock TPo4 at your peril....

[lsaw2]

[ QUOTE ]

I’ve hosted all the games so far in our first season. I love playing cards; it’s a fantastic game and hobby for me. I’ve got notes on all the regular players, betting habits, verbally declared favorite hands, hands they beat me with and how they played them. I keep notes on the big hands I’ve won, especially against our solid players in our group. I’m an engineer by trade and have a pretty good grasp of pot odds and implied odds, position, percentages, my wife’s birthday and anniversary, etc. However, the only thing I can’t compute is another player’s mindset. That’s my only complaint, that’s my only rant.


[/ QUOTE ]


And these people who "like to get out of the house and splash chips around (paraphrased)" have no idea you're such a good friend eh!?! Sounds way too much effort for a -ve ROI.....


oh and tdlr;