Downswings, emotions, losing, lonliness and beats

[ElSapo]

I'm sticking this in psychology, but mods, feel free to stick it in BBV if you like...

Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 8s Tc 9c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
7s Jh 941 95.05 28 2.83 21 2.12 0.961
6s 8h 28 2.83 941 95.05 21 2.12 0.039

Sometimes, you just want to see the numbers laid out. So you take the beat, plug it in, make sure there really was only about a 2% chance of losing, and try and say "it can't get worse." But, of course, it can, because it can happen again. And it will, eventually, just hopefully not today or tomorrow.

And sometimes it does.

I posted a few days ago in this thread about my last four months playing to pay the rent. I don't really consider myself a "pro," since I'm actively looking for a job and all that, but I guess that is what it amounts to.

Anyways, the last few days have really made me want to think more about the frustrations that go along with professional playing, and the ups and downs we all have to face.

Playing professionally over the last several months has given me, at times, a profound sense of lonliness. I don't know how else to describe it. After a bad day, or few days, I just get this feeling that there's no one out there who would both understand -and- care.

That's the key, of course: Caring and understanding. Plenty of my friends care, I suppose, but they don't really understand. And the people on these boards certainly understand, but we've all been there — so I know you don't -really care-, same as I don't really care about your downswings.

Empathy is hard to come by for the professional poker player, I guess.

How does anyone cope with this?

When my girlfriend has a bad day or week at work, she gets stressed or whatever, I understand. She can talk about it, I understand, I've had office jobs, and so on. But when the two-outers rain down on me I feel compelled to bottle it up. She doesn't really understand poker or online gambling, and of what she does understand I know there's a part of her that finds the entire thing sketchy and weird and on the fringe of things.

So who do you turn to? Or do you? Is it simply a matter of needing to be emotionally strong to do this job? Is it just necessary that your bankroll be large — not so much in proportion to a risk of ruin calculation, but a risk of emotional hell calculation?

Bad days and weeks and months happen. Everyone who's played any length of time has a nice big dip in their earnings graph somewhere. There's a stretch of cards, be it 1,000 hands or 10,000 hands or 100,000 hands, where you didn't make squat, where you lost, where it didn't seem like you were getting anywhere.

But pro poker doesn't seem to have career counseling, or even just a whole lot of shoulders to cry on. What do you do?

I get really lonely sometimes, doing this, and I look forward to getting back into a steady job. But then there are the weeks where all the draws get there, the graph goes back up, the numbers are green, AK stands unimproved, and so on. And I forget these bad days, where it's suddenly 6:30 and I have no idea where the day went and the numbers are red red red.

2% ... Maybe it won't happen again? And when it does, what do you do?

[bernie]

Ok, frogman. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

No one said it was easy. This is a part of it that many don't think about before hand.

[ QUOTE ]
So who do you turn to? Or do you? Is it simply a matter of needing to be emotionally strong to do this job? Is it just necessary that your bankroll be large — not so much in proportion to a risk of ruin calculation, but a risk of emotional hell calculation?


[/ QUOTE ]

Last line-This can be a big part of it. Eventually, you do become indifferent to the results. Part of it is because you can usually see the light at the end of the tunnel. But this also comes with knowing that you are playing good, just getting beat. Once you confirm that, all you can do is wait. But you do have to seperate the results from emotions. It can be very tough to do that. Which is why we say that how one handles the downswings define the player.

One idea: Think of it like your own prop bet table. Like a casino's craps game or something. Sometimes the table gets beat quite a bit. But, given time, it will work itself out. When I go to my cardroom I see all the big wheels and roulette tables and I used to put it in their perspective. Just on a smaller scale.

Many outsiders don't understand the deal. They just see it as you playing a game. Well that game is alot different if it's your livelihood or if you're really serious about it. I use other peoples jobs in examples to get the point across about playing. For instance, just recently an insurance guy I knew thought it was kind of odd that I didn't really play cards while in Vegas. Which it is, even for cardplayers. I told him for me, it's like if he went on vacation and someone asked if he'd like to come in and run the insurance office for a few hours a day while he was there. He got the point. This is about the only way I've found to really give some people the understanding of what it's like.

Also, reread the 'gambling concepts' of SSHE again. Preferrably, 'where the money comes from'. I think it's a great chapter to refer to if in your kind of mindframe.

Hang in there. Pretty soon your frog will be catching flies again. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

b

[Buck_65]

You shouldn't feel so badly during a downswing that you feel you have no one who will care or understand. A downswing isn't going to kill you, and you're not going to go broke unless you have no bankroll management skills.

A downswing is only a thing that has occurred, you can never legitimately say "I'm in the middle of a downswing" since you're assuming the cards will continue to run bad. If you are a winning player and have an edge while at the table, then you have that edge with each hand you are dealt. Don't allow past events to change your play, just focus on playing the hand you're dealt and forget the 1 outer from 5 minutes ago.

I get the idea you feel like you deserve sympathy after you've been through a brutal run of cards. We don't feel sorry for our opponents when we win their money, and we shouldn't expect anyone to feel sorry for us when the cards aren't full of sunshine and rainbows. Stop thinking about the loss so much. It has already occurred, you can't change that now, and there's no "getting even". Your bankroll is exactly what it reads when the hand begins, not what it was at the beginning of the session. Focus on the next hand.

You have a girlfriend, so you're not alone. It doesn't sound like you have much of a problem to me. Just don't worry so much, you aren't gonna die or go busto if you keep your head on straight.

[sandsmarc]

If you think the lonliness is bad now, just wait till you've been doing this for a few more years. You're just beginning to scratch the surface.

Poker is NOT a career. It can be a job, but not a very interesting one. Just sitting alone in a room on a computer beating on a few gamblers and fish to make a few bucks.

How can it logically be anything BUT lonely? And unfulfilling. You are not satisfying any creative urges or building anything or creating anything. At best, you are making some money, but many times we all know you are not even doing much of that.

Even a dead-end job usually has some fun socially satisfying aspects. Some jokes and banter. Getting out of the house. Meeting people, etc. A job you actually like is really the best thing in the world.

Unless you are a superstar, poker can never be anything but an escape from a real life.

Now as a hobby and diversion, poker is the nuts. And you actually get paid a little to be good at it. You should really be playing live though rather than online. Live poker is so much more fun than online that it's ridiculous. However online is OK too as long as you don't spend hours and hours at it, getting fat and ignoring your GF.

You know in your heart that you need a real job. It will give you the balance you are yearning for. Life is a table with 3 legs. Work, play, and family. You need all 3 to feel complete and fulfilled.

[bernie]

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Poker is NOT a career.

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What's your definition of a career?

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Unless you are a superstar, poker can never be anything but an escape from a real life.

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This is crap.

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It can be a job, but not a very interesting one. Just sitting alone in a room on a computer beating on a few gamblers and fish to make a few bucks.


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You can also play live for a living. Not to mention many people sit in a room on a computer for 10 hours a day 'not' playing poker and get paid for it.

[ QUOTE ]
Even a dead-end job usually has some fun socially satisfying aspects. Some jokes and banter. Getting out of the house. Meeting people, etc. A job you actually like is really the best thing in the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Imo, Live poker fits this nicely in this mold.

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However online is OK too as long as you don't spend hours and hours at it, getting fat and ignoring your GF.


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You mean like how some spend hours and hours at a desk job somewhere?

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You know in your heart that you need a real job. It will give you the balance you are yearning for. Life is a table with 3 legs. Work, play, and family. You need all 3 to feel complete and fulfilled.

[/ QUOTE ]

About the only thing I really agree with is finding balance in life while doing it. That can be tough. Poker for a living isn't for everyone.

b

[smittymatt]

Getting off topic but I wanted to chime in. I disagree that poker can't be considered a career. As the person above me stated, there are plenty of jobs where all you do is sit in front of a computer all day. The only difference with poker is that you really aren't doing anything for society or the economy (although even this point could be argued if you invest your winnings as I'm sure many successful poker players do).

Anyway, back to the topic. Personally, I really don't get upset at bad beats anymore, but rather when I think my play is piss poor or I make a silly mistake. There is no point in getting upset over something you cannot control. To keep positive, I like to think of every hand in terms of EV, so if I get it in as a 9 to 1 favorite and lose, I can just shake it off and tell myself that I actually gained an 80% return.

On the topic of loneliness, all I can recommend is that you try to mix things up. If you are doing well at poker, just find a part-time job that interests you so you have something else to look forward to and get a sense of achievement. And obviously, if there is a casino near you, try to set a day or two a week when you play there instead of online, even if your hourly drops a little.

[Buck_65]

Thank you, bernie, you said everything I was about to but now I don't have to.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

I think you can make a few strong friends in the poker community who will care and understand. The problem is that I hate the poker community. No disrespect to anyone here, but the last thing I want to do is hang out with people who spend their lives thinking cards and learning to not feel anything. So you can either be lonely and hang out with the rest of the world, or have friends and have almost no connection to the non poker world. A few of my close friends know what I do for money, but I don't explain it to anyone else. I think what's important is to have some meaningful connection to...anything that isn't poker. When your entire life is poker and you run bad....that's hard. It's like your entire life is garbage. When there is other stuff going on, then it's much easier. Have 1 or 2 strong friends around your skill level that you can discuss everything poker with, but have something more important outside.

[bernie]

I agree with alot of that.

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but the last thing I want to do is hang out with people who spend their lives thinking cards and learning to not feel anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe addicts. Many players I know feel quite a bit away from the tables and have alot more depth to them than just cards.

b

[ElSapo]

Hey guys...

I wanted to say thanks for the replies - they were insightful and helpful and helped me put things in perspective.

Downswings, despite having had several over the past four years, are just something I've yet to become emotionally immune to. And that's something exacerbated by playing for a living, I suppose.

I am lucky - I do have a lot of friends and many outside interests. Poker is not even close to the end-all be-all of my life. I've just completed the photography documetary I mentioned in the other thread, have a show opening in a week and a half and just booked a trip to Puerto Rico.

Basically, I need to chill out and not worry. So thanks, to everyone, for their feedback. A lot of good thoughts, and I really appreciate it.

ElSapo