Donking it up at the final table...

[JoeyJoJo Shabadu]

Villian is very agressive. Somewhat loose. Good scary LAG. My image is very agressive and somewhat tight. The only hands I 've turned over were monsters and have not had to show bad hands (steals etc are working). but i have been active. Raised JTs last time I got it... didn't here.

I wanted that pot on the turn then and there. How bad is my turn play. . ... suggestions? And why? Giant donkey or mini-donk?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1200 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG+1 (t21100)
MP1 (t60536)
MP2 (t21590)
MP3 (t20135)
Hero (t47567)
Button (t30914)
SB (t31097)
BB (t14986)
UTG (t22075)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls t1200, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls t1200, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t5200) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t2400</font>, BB folds, MP1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t7200</font>, SB calls t4800.

Turn: (t19600) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t6000</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t39042</font>, SB calls t16572 (All-In).

River: (t81214) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t64744

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
SB has Jd 8h (straight, queen high).
Hero has Th Jh (two pair, tens and nines).
Outcome: SB wins t64744. Hero wins t16470. </font>

[JammyDodga]

i dont quite understand the turn bet? do you think we have FE here? I'm not so sure, although we have outs - i think 9 times out fo 10 we are putting our money in with the worst hand

[JoeyJoJo Shabadu]

Yes I do think I have FE against a very agro villian here. And yes I figure I have nut outs and a pair.

Maybe these are wrong assumptions and that's what I'm asking.

[BlueEcho]

Hmmmm I'm not sure I like it. I'm basically ok with everything up until the turn. But the trouble you have now is that the Q makes like half of the hands you were beating now ahead of you.

You have a SB that led a flop from UTG and called your reraise. He has some piece of it no matter what. Now he leads the turn on a card that really isn't good for you and you push over it? This is better if the board had a flush draw as well, thus adding that to villian's range.

I'm not sure about the flop reraise, it's actually kinda cool but I don't know about inflating a pot here.

[TFGoose]

Yeah, this seems spewy to me. Think about this from villain's point of view. He had to have a hand that he was willing to call a raise with on the flop, and then immediately fire on the turn. Whatever it is, he's happy with it, that's for sure. So no, I don't think you have much FE here, which means you're relying on your outs to save you.

After you attempted to take it down on the turn, got called, and then led into, I'd just call the 6K on the turn as you're getting direct odds to draw at your straight.

--TFGoose

[BlueEcho]

[ QUOTE ]

After you attempted to take it down on the flop, got called, and then led into, I'd just call the 6K on the turn as you're getting direct odds to draw at your straight.
--TFGoose

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that the villian also has a J some of the time really hurts your odds here.

[Dunkman]

Turn is barely a call, and only is one because the bet is so small. When you raise the flop, then he fires again on the turn, that's bad. You've overrepresented the strength of your hand, and he's STILL firing at you. That's not good. I'd likeky call a river bet if I hit my straight. You can't beat anything, please don't shove with a lousy draw and no real hand.

[wulfpacker21]

raise pf

[MrHorace]

[ QUOTE ]
raise pf

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. Just out of curiosity, how do you think that would've changed the hand.

[Cornell Fiji]

Why would you ever limp behind preflop when a raise will fold out a lot of hands that dominate you?

This is a fold or a raise. The limp is really bad.

Turn shove is fine with your additional outs.