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#1
07-20-2007, 10:03 AM
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Top pair plus flush draw...
Hey, sry I don't have hand history
I have played with villian before and he is very solid, definitely not a donk.. Early stages 11 freezeout stars... Blinds 15/30 Villian and I have 3000 chips each Folded to me on the button I raise to 90 with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] SB folds BB calls FLOP (195) A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] BB checks, I bet 165 he calls quickly TURN (525) A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] HE checks again I think and bet 425 He check raises allin...It's 2400 to me... What range is he doing this with? Can I call? 
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#2
07-20-2007, 10:16 AM
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Re: Top pair plus flush draw...
With your read that he is a solid player I am pretty sure you are behind here. I would fold this early in game with your stack.. You have a nice stack and no reason to call for all your chips with a smallish ace and a draw. I would put him on probably a bigger A than you have. No way a solid player pushes this early on a draw with an A high board. Pick a better spot IMO.
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#4
07-20-2007, 10:49 AM
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Re: Top pair plus flush draw...
[ QUOTE ]
you have to fold. You should have checked behind. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not sure if I'm in love with the this post, I think it illustrates that mjflip was talking about yesterday - WHY should he have folded. Is it really that clear here? No. We have a blind battle and you flopped an ace with a great draw. Just having the ace alone, even against a solid player, is nice here. So betting the turn is not a clear error. I maintain it's an error nonetheless. You know villain is solid, so he's not going to call you with a weaker ace; also, there are a lot of weak ace-kicker cards on this board that may have made him two pair now. He MAY call you with another flush draw, but if that's the case, if you check and the flush draw hits, you can get paid off well on the river. Yes, you fold now. You are beat and behind and deep, and thus... Barry
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#5
07-20-2007, 11:22 AM
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Re: Top pair plus flush draw...
I'm not convinced an 8 on the river wins you the hand i.e. I think you're drawing to clubs only, poss even clubs that don't pair the board...
Checking behind on the turn is much better if you think villian is solid. As played you haven't really got odds to call now.
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#6
07-20-2007, 11:30 AM
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Re: Top pair plus flush draw...
Hmmm... It's been said before and I will say it again: Don't bet that turn without a plan!
Once the bets cripples your stack with, say 15% or more, you really need a game plan before you just click the bet-button. The pot is now rather big and a steal becomes valuable. Villain knows this, of course, and your bet is perfect for him to shove over. He probably knows that you won't look him up without a big hand, therefore it's quite possible he'll do this with total air. Furthermore, the turn check-raise is a powerful move that works very often, so if I was Villain, I'd wait for the turn to pull the bluff. He could've decided early on that he was going to bluff you off your hand, so his flop call does not necessarily means a good hand. So... I think you should've checked the turn, but being in this spot, I call this. It could easily be a bluff, and if you're behind, you have outs. If you bust, there's always another $11 FO just around the corner...
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#8
07-20-2007, 11:31 AM
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Re: Top pair plus flush draw...
[ QUOTE ]
No way a solid player pushes this early on a draw with an A high board. Pick a better spot IMO. [/ QUOTE ] Let me tell you a secret! Solid players bluff too...
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#9
07-20-2007, 11:31 AM
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Re: Top pair plus flush draw...
As others have said, checking behind turn is probably better. However, personally, I'd stuff the odds. If I've bet this much on the turn, I'm not folding early in a $11 buyin. Which is to say that if I make a near psb on the turn it's because the rest is going in whatever he does. We sometimes have the best hand, we've always got outs against any holding and if he's two paired, we've got chop outs or outs to win when the board pairs.
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#10
07-20-2007, 11:51 AM
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Re: Top pair plus flush draw...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] No way a solid player pushes this early on a draw with an A high board. Pick a better spot IMO. [/ QUOTE ] Let me tell you a secret! Solid players bluff too... [/ QUOTE ] I understand that and it is a possibility but if he is truly a solid player I would be surprised if he pushed this on a draw on the second level. If so he is welcome at my table any time. I am 90% villian has AJ+. I could be wrong and I am a bit conservative but I still lay down this hand and wait for a better spot.He may have played 2 high suited cards as he had odds to call your PF raise but again I doubt he would C/R AI on a draw this early. This is all based on your read that villian is a solid player.
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