.50/1 - QQ flops boat - bad line?

Daniel Magix · #1 07-20-2007, 09:42 AM

It's been months since I played limit - it's been only tourneys for a while for me. But I am switching my weekly home tourneys to a weekly limit cash game, and last night we did a quick turbo tourney, followed by a .50/1 cash game. There were 6-7 of us in the cash game, and the skill level ranged from very good to God-awful. What do you think of this line?

Home Game 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (7 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG2 calls, MP folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, Hero raises, UTG2 calls, Button calls, SB calls

Flop: (4 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero checks, UTG2 checks, Button bets, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG2 calls

Turn: (5.5 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero bets, UTG2 calls, Button folds

River: (7.5 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero bets, UTG2 calls

My thoughts: PF is obviously standard, and I felt fine with my flop check/call. The turn is where I was a bit torn - on one hand, I knew that checking and having the round checked through, would be very bad. But I also knew that the button, my brother, is an overall good player (though he mostly plays tourneys). So I knew he could do one of two things - make a continuation bet on the turn OR take a free card if he was betting a draw or small pair, and got called by both opponents on the flop like he did. I also knew that UTG2 was a very loose and bad player, who will call down with 22 on a 4-flush painted board, so I felt confident that he wasn't going anywhere. So I felt that had I checked, UTG2 would have checked as well, and then my brother was 50/50 to bet or take the free river. In betting, I felt strong that at least UTG2 would call, maybe my bro too.

So after the hand, my brother says to his buddy, "he missed $1 from me", implying that he would have continued with a turn bet, had I checked to him.

So, I guess I am trying to find out if this turn was a good spot for a check/raise, or if my leadout bet was ok?

marchron · #2 07-20-2007, 09:56 AM

Bet the flop. By checking, you're trying to "represent" (if it's possible to represent a hand by checking) AK that whiffed and doesn't feel like c-betting into three players. But once you bet the turn, you wreck your own deception. That 7 didn't help you and any decent player knows it.

Daniel Magix · #3 07-20-2007, 10:10 AM

Yes, AK is exactly what I was attempting to represent. I think my brother bought it too, and that is why he thought he could take it down with a flop bet. He knows I am tight overall, and would likely fold with my AK there.

Oink · #4 07-20-2007, 10:37 AM

Not betting the flop in a multiway pot is TERRIBLE!. So many draws will call and 9x will give action at some point. You might even get raised by Qx.

If you dont bet you wont get raised and if you dont get raised you cant 3-bet.

If you NEVER EVER slowplay in micro and small stakes limit you will rarely make a mistake.

Not betting flop is worse than coldcalling with 72o. DONT DO IT!

Daniel Magix · #5 07-20-2007, 11:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If you NEVER EVER slowplay in micro and small stakes limit you will rarely make a mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really very seldom slowplay - unless I flop a monster, and in this case, I felt 2nd nuts was a pretty monster-like hand. But I will take note of this, and alter my strategy next time. Thank you.

Oink · #6 07-20-2007, 11:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you NEVER EVER slowplay in micro and small stakes limit you will rarely make a mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really very seldom slowplay - unless I flop a monster, and in this case, I felt 2nd nuts was a pretty monster-like hand. But I will take note of this, and alter my strategy next time. Thank you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your line of reasoning is flawed. You should not only consider your own cards, i.e. whether you flopped a monster or not. You should also consider the number of players in the pot and the possibility of the flop hitting them.

If the pot is 4-way or more you should never slowplay. Well maybe slowplay AA on AA2 flop but even in that case its questionable.

If the flop has draws like this hand you shouldnt ever slowplay either. Maybe slowplay this flop with QQ heads up against a tight player. But 999 times out of 1000 you should just bet it. If no villain has a hand he is willing to call a bet with on the flop he is not going to get a hand on the turn that he will call with.

Daniel Magix · #7 07-20-2007, 11:26 AM

Thanks man, I knew I probably made a mistake or two in the hand, just didn't know where I guess. I have some rust to shake off, and I have SSHE in my desk drawer right next to me. I plan on re-reading it soon, since I am getting back into limit games.

bozlax · #8 07-20-2007, 11:26 AM

Posting blind: who cares? This sort of hand doesn't happen enough to make any difference. SAVE THE MICROS!

After reading your post up to the flop: lead the flop, for Shania's sake! There's no reason to think anybody's going to bet it, and you're more likely to get called on the flop (small bets) than the turn (big bets). Plus, any player that does call on the flop is more likely to call the turn as well. Plus...oh, never mind. Don't post monsters.

bozlax · #9 07-20-2007, 11:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, AK is exactly what I was attempting to represent. I think my brother bought it too, and that is why he thought he could take it down with a flop bet. He knows I am tight overall, and would likely fold with my AK there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Check/folding AK on a paired flop for one bet getting better than 8:1 (even if you DON'T know that your opponent thinks you're tight enough to do it...given that you think your brother thinks...zomg, this is horrible) is even worse than not c-betting AK on a paired flop with 8 bets in the pot.

This thread is seriously depressing.

Daniel Magix · #10 07-20-2007, 12:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This thread is seriously depressing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you should get some help if a poker message board thread depresses you?

Now I remember why I haven't posted on here in so long - I post a hand, ask for advice, get berated for my mistakes (that's cool, I know that is standard here), graciously accept the criticism like an adult - yet someone has to continue re-hashing the same advice that was already given to me several times in the thread, only in a more condescending manner.

I asked for advice, got it, and thanked those who gave it - isn't that what this forum is for? Why do you have to state how bad a thread you think this is? What is so bad about a guy asking advice and learning?