two quick hands with pp

[getting better]

OK, after registering a while ago, I have my first hand post! yeah!

Playing 3/6 B&M, about 4.5 hours into session.

Table is very loose and passive, even for a live table. Regularly 8+ to the flop, pre-flop raise about 1/3 hands. Occasionally and at random, real poker players show up and there are 4 or less to the flop, but this is about once per orbit.

For any paying attention, I have played a very aggresive game and shown either very strong (set or better) or very weak (complete bluff) hands with very little in between. I have a large stack in from of me (about 60 BB, table average is about 15)

General hand ranges throughout the table are pretty wide, anything suited, anything connected, any ace and and any two >9.

Hand one

I am UTG with 44. I limp and 4 other limpers to the button who raises. All call and its 8 to the flop.

2-3-6 Rainbow.

Looks like a flop that should have missed everyone. Checked to me and I bet. A few calls and then the CO (an old nit) raises. The button and blinds fold. Now, I may have the best hand (if anyone but this player was the raiser I would say its >50%) but I probably don't just due to the player. However, IF I don't then I certainly have outs as this particular player is not one to see a flop with 4-5 in his position; the question is how many? I figure a little less than 6 outs, but factoring in the small possibility that I am already ahead I make it 6 outs. I raise to protect my hand. It folds to him who calls and the pot is heads up.

Turn - 4

OK, I hit one of my outs and it goes bet-call

River - Q (no flush board)

Bet (planning on folding to a raise, but probably wouldn't anyways) and he calls.



Hand 2

Very next hand.

I am big blind with 88d. Three limpers to me and I check.

Flop comes 7-6-5 with two diamonds.

Fantastic!

I bet, next player (MP) raises and it folds to me. I three bet and its called.

Turn is a 2 and I bet and she calls.

River is a J (no flush board) and I bet and she calls.

Comments?

[KitCloudkicker]

you 3 bet the flop in hand 1? thats awful spew. rest is fine.

hand 2 is also a flop spew against a lot of players, particularly passive ones. i know a few who'll only raise a straight on this flop. its a good 3 bet against aggressive players. whats your read on MP?

[Esso]

I think you played these fine.

I think the main debate is the 3-bet in hand 1, and that depends on how often you think you are ahead. My thinking is that if he is truly an old nit then you are ahead here never. In that case, since you are not likely to win without hitting your draw, but are very likely to win if you do hit, protecting your hand is counterproductive.

[getting better]

The reasoning behind 3 betting the flop in hand one is similar to why I'd raise a flop bet with a hand like 88 - I want to face the field with calling 2 bets. Since everyone has already called my first bet, simply calling the raise lets them carry on. Also, preflop and flop raises were not respected at the table, but three bets were. In 5 hours, I never saw a single cap on any street. Finally, even though I'm out of position, if an out doesn't come on the turn I can get a free card with very high probability against this player, and in fact most of the table had they called. While I figure there is a small chance of being ahead, the chance it holds up against 6 others by the river is zero.

For hand two, my opponent would have raised (in my mind) with any of the following: K-7 or better, 2 pair, a naked 8, a straight and a set, with the following hands by far the most likely A-7 and 8-7 (wrong and wrong). I'd figure her to cap with a straight (which she did not have), so I kept leading.

For perspective on what raises mean at this table: A preflop raise was made UTG and was called by 5 peaople including both blinds. Flop turn and River were checked through, yes 5 ways. Winning hand unimproved A2 by the small blind

As it happens, both these opponents were ridiculously passive. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[ProfessorBen]

Hand 1: You have a gutshot. c/c flop. A bet/call line is fine too. Bet/3-town is absolute spew.

As played, the turn is fine but c/c the river. Folding in a pot this size is lighting money on fire.

Hand 2:
I raise preflop, but a check is fine and that should depend on your relative post-flop skills.

Rest of the hand is fine.

Note: Hand 1 shows that you are mis-applying alot of logic. Re-read whatever resources you have.

[ProfessorBen]

[ QUOTE ]
hand 2 is also a flop spew against a lot of players, particularly passive ones. i know a few who'll only raise a straight on this flop. its a good 3 bet against aggressive players. whats your read on MP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 2's 3-bet isn't that bad without a read. You are likely ahead of villain's range and you have a signficiant number of outs against 2 pairs that mitigate the range you are behind.

I'm at work, but if villain's range is something like 7x, A6, 2 pair, set, combo draw, 44, 99, TT we are ahead enough of the range to 3-bet. I'll stove this later.

[KitCloudkicker]

[ QUOTE ]
The reasoning behind 3 betting the flop in hand one is similar to why I'd raise a flop bet with a hand like 88 - I want to face the field with calling 2 bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given that this was your goal, you should have not bet out, but rather checked and hoped that the button, the original PFR, would bet, giving you the opportunity to CR the entire field and face them with 2 cold.

[ProfessorBen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The reasoning behind 3 betting the flop in hand one is similar to why I'd raise a flop bet with a hand like 88 - I want to face the field with calling 2 bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given that this was your goal, you should have not bet out, but rather checked and hoped that the button, the original PFR, would bet, giving you the opportunity to CR the entire field and face them with 2 cold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kit is correct in therms of method, but this goal sucks. Your hand is a "made hand" but it suffers from hating every card in the deck except 6/5/4 that your are drawing too. Keep people in so they can pay you off and improve the equity of your call.

[KitCloudkicker]

[ QUOTE ]


Kit is correct in therms of method, but this goal sucks. Your hand is a "made hand" but it suffers from hating every card in the deck except 6/5/4 that your are drawing too. Keep people in so they can pay you off and improve the equity of your call.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree.

[ProfessorBen]

Forgot. Welcome to the forums!