50NL: KK OOP in 3 bet pot w/ A on flop...good/correct line?

[SirFelixCat]

Villain is pretty much a monkey, 69/59 over 50+ hands and is has shown down big hands and air, both played similarly.

That said, I must admit that I'm a bit ??? about how to play these type hands, esp when OOP. Thoughts?

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 4 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $64.45
SirFelixCat (BB): $50.00
UTG: $46.35
BTN: $45.50

Preflop: SirFelixCat is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 Players)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $1.75</font>, BTN folds, SB calls $1.50, <font color="red">SirFelixCat raises to $7.00</font>, UTG calls $5.25, SB folds

Flop: ($15.75) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SirFelixCat checks, UTG checks

Turn: ($15.75) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SirFelixCat bets $10.25???</font>

Now, with this bet, what is our next move if villain folds (duh)... calls? raises?

[PleasureGuy69]

betting is really bad. If he has an ace, he'll play; if he doesn't have an ace, you just folded out a wide range of hands that he'll most likely bluff you on.

By betting here, you turn your hand with great showdown value into a bluff.

I'd check/call, then re-evaluate river.

[Sweir]

If he calls then I would make a smallish ~1/2psb value bet on a blank river. If he raises then its pretty villain dependant. Some villains are never checking behind an ace on the flop so you only loose to a hand that the 9 helped, in which case call and try to get to SD cheaply.

[SirFelixCat]

[ QUOTE ]
If he calls then I would make a smallish ~1/2psb value bet on a blank river. If he raises then its pretty villain dependant. Some villains are never checking behind an ace on the flop so you only loose to a hand that the 9 helped, in which case call and try to get to SD cheaply.

[/ QUOTE ]

But do you advocate betting the turn or no?


And PG69...if villain had, say, QQ here, would he not call after seeing me check the flop? I don't think we necessarily turn our hand into a bluff here, having checked the flop. You don't think worse hands will call? Now, had I bet the flop, I agree 100%. But having checked the flop, I think a bet is a value bet here.

Then there's the question of what do we do if villain raises our turn bet though....

[monkover]

either go into c/c mode or fold but never bet! villain´s calling range has you crushed.

[DenDuurs]

Why didn't you bet the flop? There are a few aces in Villain's range, but also a lot of PP that are lower than yours.

[SirFelixCat]

[ QUOTE ]
either go into c/c mode or fold but never bet! villain´s calling range has you crushed.

[/ QUOTE ]

See my last post...


So you guys advocate c/c'ing the whole way down then, trying to play pot control in a 3bet pot? Again, would villain not call with QQ here having the flop checked thru?

Learn me fellas....

[SirFelixCat]

[ QUOTE ]
Why didn't you bet the flop? There are a few aces in Villain's range, but also a lot of PP that are lower than yours.

[/ QUOTE ]

Welcome to the forum...glad my post got you to come in! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

If we bet the flop, we are repping an A, and seeing as I 3bet an UTG raiser, that means I have AJ+. I would fold out all hands that might pay off a bet on a later street and only get called by hands that crush me (any A, JJ, or the random 55).

With this said, I don't understand why ppl are saying that I should not bet the turn. Don't we have to extract value from villain at some point though?

[Sweir]

[ QUOTE ]


But do you advocate betting the turn or no?



[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I like betting the turn unless you think villain will bluff a lot (or more than he will call). Its for value.

[ QUOTE ]

Then there's the question of what do we do if villain raises our turn bet though....

[/ QUOTE ]

As I said earlier it depends on the villain, and how much he raises... If its a big raise I would fold.

[monkover]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
either go into c/c mode or fold but never bet! villain´s calling range has you crushed.

[/ QUOTE ]

See my last post...


So you guys advocate c/c'ing the whole way down then, trying to play pot control in a 3bet pot? Again, would villain not call with QQ here having the flop checked thru?

Learn me fellas....

[/ QUOTE ]

QQ is about the only hand you are ahead of in villain´s range that will call an extra bet all other hands that call you are way ahead. imo villain won´t be very conviced that is J10s or whatever is good and call your turn bet.

The main problem with betting the turn imo is that villain knows if he wants to get to sd he will prob have to call another bet on the river.