$11/180 facing river raise...wtf?

Sherman · #1 07-18-2007, 11:29 AM

2nd hand at this table. I don't usually limp AJ UTG, but for some reason I did here. It's debatable and probably bad, but w/e.

I'm trying to figure out what to do on the river. Comments on other streets welcome as well.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

CO (t1390)
Button (t1800)
SB (t1450)
BB (t1440)
Hero (t1630)
UTG+1 (t1470)
MP1 (t4500)
MP2 (t1370)
MP3 (t2970)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero calls t20, 1 fold, MP1 calls t20, MP2 raises to t80, 5 folds, Hero calls t60, MP1 calls t60.

Flop: (t270) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks.

Turn: (t270) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets t200, MP1 folds, MP2 calls t200.

River: (t670) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t250, MP2 raises to t1090, Hero...

JoeyJoJo Shabadu · #2 07-18-2007, 11:39 AM

Ah the hazards of slow play... you call this and I think you can expect to be beat most of the time. Fold.

BlueEcho · #3 07-18-2007, 11:43 AM

Since all we are beating on the flop is A9 or a pp I like the check. After it checks around I lead turn as well. Calling river is just sooooooooooooooooooo tempting.

As a side note if you go results oriented here and work backwards (which I know is a no no) leading the flop helps us no? I mean if villian calls here you can assume you are beat. Having limped UTG, called a bet and led flop should put you squarely on an ace in villian's mind.

Meh, I'm still sure it's a check on the flop. This one should spark some interest if any of the others that are closely related are a sign.

BarryLyndon · #4 07-18-2007, 11:53 AM

Yeah, I fold. It's odd because I'd like MP2 to bet here on the flop with AQ or AK or to RR on the turn. However, I'd also like him to raise to 100 preflop, so I'm thinking that he is slowplaying AK here and badly. OTOH, he could think that your bet of 250 is not an ace and now he's raising with _ _? I'm confused, but I still fold.

BlueEcho · #5 07-18-2007, 12:04 PM

After we get called on the turn might it be better to check/call the river?

Sherman · #6 07-18-2007, 12:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
After we get called on the turn might it be better to check/call the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

I considered check/calling the river, but I really thought a hand like KK or QQ might call a river bet given the flop checks, but check behind if checked to. So yeah, I thought the river was a good place to bet for value. Which is why the raise confused me so much.

BlueEcho · #7 07-18-2007, 12:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After we get called on the turn might it be better to check/call the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

I considered check/calling the river, but I really thought a hand like KK or QQ might call a river bet given the flop checks, but check behind if checked to. So yeah, I thought the river was a good place to bet for value. Which is why the raise confused me so much.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed

BarryLyndon · #8 07-18-2007, 12:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
After we get called on the turn might it be better to check/call the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking about that, Blue, and it's been my default play in the past. It's tough, because it's an 11, and A10 and A9s are possibilities, I think. So, betting 250 into 650 is a really nice bet, I think JJ-KK come for the ride too. So, when you think that's in the range, betting 250 for value is pretty nice here on the river and you don't want to miss it. I really have a hard time seeing Villain RR here, so "check/call" river still feels like the second best option.

I think that when Sherman checks, he faces a much wider range of plays by villain which could leave him more confused. For instance, if he checks, how much does he plan to call on the river?

Barry

SonofDjugashvili · #9 07-18-2007, 12:21 PM

I liked your call of the raise p/f less than the limp. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I know you are getting the odds, but you have a live player behind you and the kind of hand that leads to much trouble. This is a tough situation, since an U/K in the 10+1 is liable to be doing this with KK or QQ. I highly doubt that he is capable of raising limpers with 76 or 65 so I doubt you are up against trip 6's. That flop check was either a scared big pair or some sort of slow-play with... AK, TT? Man, I can see you being ahead here against some noob... this is why I don't play AJ OOP early. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I guess I'd fold since I have plenty of chips relative to the BB.

Sherman · #10 07-18-2007, 12:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I liked your call of the raise p/f less than the limp. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I know you are getting the odds, but you have a live player behind you and the kind of hand that leads to much trouble. This is a tough situation, since an U/K in the 10+1 is liable to be doing this with KK or QQ. I highly doubt that he is capable of raising limpers with 76 or 65 so I doubt you are up against trip 6's. That flop check was either a scared big pair or some sort of slow-play with... AK, TT? Man, I can see you being ahead here against some noob... this is why I don't play AJ OOP early. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I guess I'd fold since I have plenty of chips relative to the BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree. I really don't know why I limped to begin with. I called the raise because I knew the other player was coming in behind me and I told myself this, "Well, if an A hits, I can get away if it gets aggressive and if a J hits, I'll play it more aggressively."

In any case, in retrospect this was really terrible logic and I convinced myself to play a hand I should never have been in (probably an ego thing). And this is why I normally fold AJ UTG.

At any rate, given that PF is a total disaster, I think I played the rest of the hand pretty well...but what to do on the river getting better than 2:1?