Erin Hills vs The Bull (Wisc Golf)

WLVRYN · #1 07-17-2007, 09:11 AM

I'm headed to play Whistling Straits and Blackwolf Run at the end of August. We are flying in and out of Milwaukee. I read an article in SI this week about Erin Hills, which supposedly just got a US Amateur and is expecting to get a US Open.

We are playing our first round of the trip at The Bull in Sheboygan, but now we are thinking about changing to play Erin Hills. Has anyone played either of these courses, and if you've played both, which would be a better round?

tuq · #2 07-17-2007, 04:59 PM

Erin Hills is a fascinating course. Haven't played it but read the article in SI last week also. Scorecard. 7800+ yards, the back nine is over 4000 yards long.

One thing mentioned in the article not found on their site is the 19th hole they built that may be used for playoffs etc. Pretty cool/quirky idea.

EDIT: the 19th hole does show up on the scorecard after the 9th hole. Hmmmm, wonder how that works and if they're counting it towards the total yards.

WLVRYN · #3 07-19-2007, 08:45 AM

There's a courese in Northern Michigan (Forest Dunes) that has a bye hole. Its a short par 3 (maybe 120 yards), over water with a giant bunker in the middle of the green. Its an awesome golf betting hole. Last time we played there, we must have played that hole 5 times.

I think we're going to check out Erin Hills. I havent gotten much feedback on the Bull, but everyone that I've talked to has said that Erin Hills is a great course. It should be a good trip with Whistling Straits and Blackwolf Run. I played all 4 courses at both of those last summer at it was awesome.

d_wrek · #4 07-19-2007, 05:00 PM

I have not played The Bull, but I played Erin Hills last month...it's fantastic. The first hole is a little goofy, but after that it's a great design. Definitely worth the $$$.

tuq · #5 07-19-2007, 05:06 PM

WLVRYN, interesting. I think the fact they're both short par-3s with peril all around is what makes them so awesome. So it doesn't take a lot of extra time to play the hole, but standing on the tee with a bunch of bets riding and needing to pull off a tough short iron shot is what makes it great.

d_wrek, trip report about the bye hole plz.

ShivasIrons · #6 07-19-2007, 06:40 PM

Great trip coming up for you. I've been to Kohler several times and within the last month went on the same trip you did. I've played The Bull twice and it is an outstanding golf course. I would place it between The River and Meadow Valley courses. It sits on similar land, and while it takes a few holes to build, once you reach the 5th there are several very stong holes coming.

It was in outstanding condition both times I played it. The greens are perfect, but not quite as tricky as the Blackwolf Run courses. Everyone in our group of 8 was highly impressed by The Bull. It is, especially the back side, extremely difficult. You would not be disappointed if you played there, and as it doesn't get alot of play, it makes for a quicker round.

Erin Hills will certainly be the bigger trophy course in the future. It is hit or miss in terms of whether people love it or hate it. You will need to take a caddie or forecaddie as there are several blind shots on the course that will cause problems for first time players. The course opened too early last year and as of a month ago, while highly playable, it was not fully grown in (not a big problem, just a few spots). The fairways are fescue (like the Straits course) and are designed to play firm and fast (and to be cut low) like a links course should. They are allowing the fescue in the fairways to grow fairly long and shaggy in order to ensure proper grow in. So the ball won't run as much as it should, and the course won't play like it was designed to until next year. The greens are in good shape. The point I'm making isn't that the course is in bad shape, because it isn't, but it isn't on par from a conditioning point of view of as the Kohler/Haven/Sheboygan courses. At least as of last month.

The design of the course is unique and while not everyone's cup of tea, is really cool in my book. It will be better next year, but is still worth getting to this summer.

The reason for the "bye hole" is the par 3 7th is a "Dell" hole. The green sits below a ridge in a little valley, and the tee shot is completely blind. They position a white rock daily on line to the flag as an aiming point. It is believed that pro's will not be pleased with not being able to see the green on a par 3, and thus the bye hole will be used. It sits between the 9th and 10th holes and is the better hole anyway.

About a month ago a member of the Discussion Group at golfclubatlas.com (the premier site for golf course architecture) did a several part series with multiple pictures on Erin Hills. There has been plenty of discussion on the site about the course. Use the search feature and you should be able to find the series. If not PM me and I'll try and find it for you.

The good news is you can't go wrong with either choice. But I thought you should know that The Bull is an outstanding track in it's own right. Have a great time.

WLVRYN · #7 07-19-2007, 11:31 PM

Shivas - Thanks for the info. I think we'll stick with Erin Hills since I'm not sure when we'll get back over there again, and some of the guys definitely like to get a notch in their bedpost for courses that are ranked highly and host major tourneys. We may add in the Bull in an afternoon 2nd round one day. I'd rather drop Meadows Valley altogether, but its in the package we've got so we'll play it.

We do an annual golf trip with my college buddies. I think this is the 11th trip we've done, and after this year we'll have knocked out most of the major golfing destinations. Next year will be Bandon Dunes, and then the year after hopefully off to Ireland/Scotland/England for a really big trip.

Tuq - The bye hole at Forest Dunes is after the 18th hole, so its a good position to make a last few crying bets to get back to even. I think I like the positioning there better than between 9 and 10 at Erin Hills, but we'll have to see. The only thing I didnt like about it was the giant bunker in the middle of the green because it causes some weird shots if you get on the wrong side of it. They actually ask you to drop off the green if you have to chip over the bunker so you dont wreck the green.

tuq · #8 07-20-2007, 01:56 PM

Shivas, awesome post. According to the yardage book, the Dell Hole is a tribute to a centuries-old style of hole, I don't know why the pros have to be such big pussies about it. Sounds like an interesting concept.

WLVRYN, as the guide states it was set up to be after 18 but they flip-flopped the hole routing, which makes perfect sense because apparently what is now 18 looks directly at the clubhouse and a scenic backdrop. Definitely it would be better to have after 18. Also, I've played holes with bunkers in the middle, it's rare enough that I think it's kinda neat.

chitwood · #9 07-22-2007, 08:23 PM

Going up in two weeks to play the four courses in Kohler. Coming in a day early to meet a friend in Milwaukee, play at some private course that a buddy of his belongs to (he said it is the "Jewish" club in Milwaukee, if that means anything to anyone) and play some poker at Potawatomi. Did the Kohler trip last year, and can't wait to get back.

KotOD · #10 07-22-2007, 08:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Shivas, awesome post. According to the yardage book, the Dell Hole is a tribute to a centuries-old style of hole, I don't know why the pros have to be such big pussies about it. Sounds like an interesting concept.

WLVRYN, as the guide states it was set up to be after 18 but they flip-flopped the hole routing, which makes perfect sense because apparently what is now 18 looks directly at the clubhouse and a scenic backdrop. Definitely it would be better to have after 18. Also, I've played holes with bunkers in the middle, it's rare enough that I think it's kinda neat.

[/ QUOTE ]

My regular course has a Dell-like Hole on it. It's a 204 yard down-sloping par three to a 7-foot cliff, then the green, which sloped front to back. You can barely see the top of the flag, and even then you have no idea how deep the hole plays. It's a brutal hole as it takes a perfect shot to hold the green and it takes the most delicate chip if you are short of the cliff, but also one of my favorites. It's such a challenge.