Req: Career advice

[Dale Dough]

El D, I hope this isn't too individual-specific, but I'm guessing there are a lot of young poker players in pretty much the same spot. I liked the various financial success threads, and hope to get similarly qualitative input.

I want to combine, or possibly replace, playing poker with something more rewarding in the long term. Ideally, I want to end up with my very own financial empire.

Assets/Skills or lack thereof:

- Dutch and Australian national. About to turn 22 in September.
- Just got my B.Sc. in International Business Administration, from Erasmus in Rotterdam. Did the absolute bare minimum - mediocre grades, only showed up for exams. I also took 4 years instead of 3.
- Poker pro. I play 10/20 NL, but play very little and it doesn't excite me much. 150k US in the bankroll.
- Invested a few K in a web project still in its very infancy.
- Did almost nothing to gain either a network or experience. No frat, no student organizations etc, no internships, no job.

My Own Thoughts:

I guess I'm looking for a happy place somewhere between the following two:

The 'Cowboy Plan': Start right now. Focus all my energy on the web venture/other similar projects until I get it right. Learn/network as I go.
- Main drawbacks: Probably will need my own cash; thus small time at first. Biggest fear: remaining small time forever, while others work their way up the ladder.

The 'Responsible, Dad-Endorsed Plan': Get a job and/or further education, learn from that for a few years, and then start on my own.
- Main drawbacks: Less poker $$$ coming in, and I have to start later. Biggest fear: ending up in a dead-end job, never realizing my dreams.

Possible alternative: baller trading job. I do have an interest in finance, wrote my thesis about it, but that's about it. And as I understand I should have picked a different degree to have a real shot. Right?

The Question:

If you were in my shoes right now, what would you do?

[KDuff]

There are several Amsterdam based options/futures trading groups. Two that come to mind are Optiver and Flow Traders.

[Gobias Ind.]

[ QUOTE ]
El D, I hope this isn't too individual-specific, but I'm guessing there are a lot of young poker players in pretty much the same spot. I liked the various financial success threads, and hope to get similarly qualitative input.

I want to combine, or possibly replace, playing poker with something more rewarding in the long term. Ideally, I want to end up with my very own financial empire.

Assets/Skills or lack thereof:

- Dutch and Australian national. About to turn 22 in September.
- Just got my B.Sc. in International Business Administration, from Erasmus in Rotterdam. Did the absolute bare minimum - mediocre grades, only showed up for exams. I also took 4 years instead of 3.
- Poker pro. I play 10/20 NL, but play very little and it doesn't excite me much. 150k US in the bankroll.
- Invested a few K in a web project still in its very infancy.
- Did almost nothing to gain either a network or experience. No frat, no student organizations etc, no internships, no job.

My Own Thoughts:

I guess I'm looking for a happy place somewhere between the following two:

The 'Cowboy Plan': Start right now. Focus all my energy on the web venture/other similar projects until I get it right. Learn/network as I go.
- Main drawbacks: Probably will need my own cash; thus small time at first. Biggest fear: remaining small time forever, while others work their way up the ladder.

The 'Responsible, Dad-Endorsed Plan': Get a job and/or further education, learn from that for a few years, and then start on my own.
- Main drawbacks: Less poker $$$ coming in, and I have to start later. Biggest fear: ending up in a dead-end job, never realizing my dreams.

Possible alternative: baller trading job. I do have an interest in finance, wrote my thesis about it, but that's about it. And as I understand I should have picked a different degree to have a real shot. Right?

The Question:

If you were in my shoes right now, what would you do?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm in a similar, yet less favorable spot. Far less $$$ in the bank and I'm 4 years older than you. One of my problems is that I never truly had any dreams. There was never something that I said I wanted to wake up and do for the rest of my life. There's a commercial on American that pans to a businessman waking up and you see eggs cracking onto the frying pan as he states, "Making the sale is what drives me in the morning" (paraphrased). I wonder how many working professionals really have that. How many are really driven to do what they do every morning?

With that being said, what exactly are your dreams? Is it web-venture, or is that more along the line of flavor of the month?

[bruin]

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder how many working professionals really have that. How many are really driven to do what they do every morning?

[/ QUOTE ]

this really isn't that big of a problem. study something you like, go into an industry you enjoy. problem solved.

[Envyme_Mvp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wonder how many working professionals really have that. How many are really driven to do what they do every morning?

[/ QUOTE ]

this really isn't that big of a problem. study something you like, go into an industry you enjoy. problem solved.

[/ QUOTE ]
Making a lot of $$ can motivate many people for a good amount of time, but doing something you like wins out for sure.
Try to find something with both, take risks, find your comfort zone and what you hate.... If you don't try things, you'll never know. All of this in moderation and preferably +life EV situations, of course....

[Dale Dough]

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't try things, you'll never know. All of this in moderation and preferably +life EV situations, of course....

[/ QUOTE ]

The biggest fear I have about just starting on my own is that I will have a very narrow spectrum of options.

Case example: a friend of a friend got an entry position as financial analyst at a large mutual fund. He makes 2k EUR a month, and has to write lots of lengthy reports, which I always hated in uni. But his work also involves visiting companies around the world in order to, well, analyze.

That's a lot of foot-in-the-doors into the business world. I'm pretty sure I won't get that out of rentacoder.com, banner networks, AdSense etc.

I am NOT in the website business because I'm super passionate about it - it's just the best option for me now with very limited knowledge and capital. I figure I can just throw Hail Marys for a few k at a time and learn from that.

But what if I get sick of websites - is any industry open to me as long as I start small-ish? Can I replace quality on-the-job training, experience and knowledge transfer?

[James Boston]

Dale,

I only took a few things from your post, but here's my non-expert advice.

You have a $150,000 bankroll? That's enough to start just about any business you enjoy. Work for awhile, find something that interests you, and then persue that with your $150,000. You're in great shape, as far as seed money goes, to make yourself into a succesful businessman.

[emon87]

[ QUOTE ]
Possible alternative: baller trading job. I do have an interest in finance, wrote my thesis about it, but that's about it. And as I understand I should have picked a different degree to have a real shot. Right?

[/ QUOTE ]


Nah, you should have done better in school.

It sounds like you aren't really passionate about your websites - that is going to be a disaster. You should get a job for a few years at least, then potentially re-evaluate.

[emptyshell]

Doesn't sound like you have the personal attributes for huge success. One useful phrase comes to mine: The key to happiness is lowered expectations.

Seriously, work on happiness. I keep remembering this interview answer from Larry Ellison:

Q: What are the most difficult aspects of aging to you?

A: A fascinating question. I'm probably in denial. I do a fairly good job of repression. Repression is a very necessary psychological mechanism for preserving my sanity.

...then he goes on to talk about being rich some more. Late twenties/early thirties is when you should be defining your career. For now, just dabble.

[Dale Dough]

Strangely enough, I don't feel unhappy. I have a great g/f that I love, great friends, good ties with my family, money, am in reasonably good shape, freedom, etc., etc. I would rather say I feel unfulfilled. Kind of like, I enjoy life, but in the back of my head I have this nagging, guilty feeling that I'm doing something wrong.

Poker doesn't make me feel miserable at all - as long as I know it's not the only thing I'll do. Now that I am about to graduate and have nothing else lined up, I'm starting to get that eerie feeling that I might be making a choice I'll regret later.

I probably screwed up already by not working harder in school, but so be it. I did gain some valuable life experience that I otherwise wouldn't have had.

The website project is going, but it's going slowly, and we have a lot of competitors. I honestly have no idea whether it's going to pay off - which is why I don't want to risk significant funds.

So, I have to look at other options. Start a different venture? Get a job that pays more than poker? How? Do a bunch of different, unrelated internships to see if there's something else I might like? How much poker can I still play? Maintain the status quo and worry about it in a year? Get my master's? In what?

See, that's the problem. I have to choose, but I don't feel qualified to make a good decision.

I also don't really know a lot people that could help me with this. It's probably a little late to see the guidance counselor at the university, since technically I already left.

Can I just call random people and say 'Hi I'm XXX, you want to tell me about your profession?'.

I'm totally serious - I have like no network and actually don't know how to go about that.


Sorry if this post comes off a bit incoherent. I'll probably laugh about it later, and/or feel somewhat embarrassed that I couldn't figure this out for myself. But I have nothing to lose, right?