5/10 PLO hand at Wynn, about 350BB deep

kutuz_off · #1 07-12-2007, 05:48 PM

Hello. I don't post much and I'm pretty sure this is the right play, but a British dude on my right who seemed to know what he was doing kinda indirectly criticized my turn bet.

I have KcQhTcTd in MP, and raise it to 50 preflop after a few limpers, a bunch of people call, 300 pot preflop. Flop comes QJ5, one club (don't recall which). Checked to the Aussie on the button (against whom I created my 4.5K stack on a recent hand when I raised PF with QJT9, he check-called my PSB on the QJx flop and shoved x turn that must've given him a flush draw, my top 2 good on a brick river). Aussie pots, I call, somebody behind me calls, 3 to the turn. Turn is 6c. I pot for 1200 with Aussie holding about 3200 I think. I wasn't afraid of the caller behind me at all for some reason, although he probably held some of my straight outs.

I thought having a queen in my hand was key to moving him off something like a set of jacks, a draw, or a 2-pair type hand. I did put him on a set based on his flop action, but thought he would lay down JJ, and he said he would have after the hand. Is it a bad lead on the turn or pretty standard? Is it transparent what I have based on check-calling the flop? TYIA.

Ribbo · #2 07-12-2007, 06:00 PM

All british dudes know how to play PLO.

Calling in position isn't transparent about anything. I've smooth called top set, called with a nut flush draw, called with a straight wrap and called floating my opponent who is out of position.
That said, fold the flop. You're out of position with 8 outs from 44 cards. Drawing to straights when out of position is expensive, as usually something else gets there that beats you.
You have a bad hand that looks good.

iggymcfly · #3 07-12-2007, 06:01 PM

I think that looks super-transparent, check-calling and then leading the blank turn. I'm not folding bottom set ever to that action and I'm usually not folding top two either. The fact that you stacked the Aussie earlier when he tried a similar move and you held top two makes it even less likely that you'll get a fold here. At this point, you should just check/call and hope to get some value on the river if you hit.

trambopoline · #4 07-13-2007, 02:57 AM

From my short experience at plo ive seen this to be a combo draw (where turn completes 2 to flush and villain leads pot) every time. Do you ever flatcall JJ or QQ on that flop? As you said, I especially hate it because the overcall looks alot like a straight draw and takes away some of your outs.

CrushinFelt · #5 07-13-2007, 08:53 AM

c/c turn

jbird · #6 07-13-2007, 09:25 AM

Your hand is face up, you have very very minimal fold equity in this spot.

I would c/c turn if you think you can get some additional value out of Aussie's set when you hit the river. If you are pretty sure he shuts down when you make your hand (which is my guess), it's a painful c/f.

Even after you pot turn and Aussie pushes, you need 36% equity against JJ to call his push and you only have 30%.

board: QcJh5d6c
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
JJ** 69.64% 417,538 663
KcQhTcTd 30.36% 181,799 663

If we expand his range a bit it gets closer, but I think this is more or less a pretty hand that sucks in this spot.

kutuz_off · #7 07-13-2007, 10:49 AM

Thanks for responses, folks. Much appreciated. I suppose it was a mistake after all. I still don't like check-calling turn here though. But if that's the case, I should just check-fold the flop.

PS. Live PLO is fun.

CrushinFelt · #8 07-13-2007, 11:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for responses, folks. Much appreciated. I suppose it was a mistake after all. I still don't like check-calling turn here though. But if that's the case, I should just check-fold the flop.

PS. Live PLO is fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's your problem with c/c turn? You're not going to get him off JJ, like, ever. And if he decides to raise JJ you have to get your stack in as a dog. This is abuot as obvious a c/c as it gets.

cmyr · #9 07-13-2007, 11:23 AM

why are we calling this turn? I'd have led the flop and evaluated, but I have TP and an OE on the turn and a call just makes my decision tricky on the river unless a 9 or an A comes. lead the flop and call a raise, and c/c or c/r the turn.

c/r has the advantage of getting it in good against a draw that you have beat currently, and also has FE against a hand like top and bottom that might've potted in position on the flop.

CrushinFelt · #10 07-13-2007, 11:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
why are we calling this turn? I'd have led the flop and evaluated, but I have TP and an OE on the turn and a call just makes my decision tricky on the river unless a 9 or an A comes. lead the flop and call a raise, and c/c or c/r the turn.

c/r has the advantage of getting it in good against a draw that you have beat currently, and also has FE against a hand like top and bottom that might've potted in position on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Picked up club draw on turn as well unless I read it wrong, which is I guess what lead to him thinking his hand was huge? c/r is an interesting line, but I see TTP and sets all getting it in against you. No one would take that line with QQ more than .00009 perecent of the time. And yes I'd have lead flop as well.