WSOP Texas HOldem bonus poker

[MyTurn2Raise]

so, I played this game a bit for fun last week in Vegas. I was struck by how odd it was that the some casinos wouldn't let players look at each other's cards while others didn't seem to notice.

I looked up on wizard of odds that the edge is 2.03% for the house. However, if the player knows 8-10 other cards held by players in a single deck, is this enough to make the game +ev (by knowing when to value bet more, how many cards can help your hand, narrower dealer range, etc)?

Has anyone done a real analysis on this game, or are the turn and river bets just to difficult to get anything close to positive ev play.

[maidenguy]

Talked to a guy who does alot of the programming for the games and the best he could do with a BASIC STRATEGY Chart was a house edge percentage between 4-5%. Optimal strategy,using a computer, gives the house a 2.04 edge. Knowing others hole cards when holding a 4 card straight or flush probably would be the best.Stanley Ko in his Let it Ride strategy booklet talks about this some.

[govman6767]

If you hit a bonus hand higher than 6's or 7's stay anyother hand fold (except King anything) It should allow you to play for a while. It's not a optimal strategy but it's a conservitave one that will give you more time to hit your AA or AK [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[BSQJamie]

Perhaps this is a slightly different game but I was under the impression that Texas Hold'em Bonus had a similar % expectation to Blackjack?

I think the main problem is that the "basic" strategy is not actually very basic so much harder to stick to unlike BJ. Also too many people get suckered in by the bonus bets....

[govman6767]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps this is a slightly different game but I was under the impression that Texas Hold'em Bonus had a similar % expectation to Blackjack?

I think the main problem is that the "basic" strategy is not actually very basic so much harder to stick to unlike BJ. Also too many people get suckered in by the bonus bets....

[/ QUOTE ]

You people are quite amazing.... "Get suckered in by the bonus bets"

Are you kidding me ???????

Ok here we have a -EV game with or without the bonus bet.

Do you understand the concept ?? I should not have to say anything more.

But Almost everyone that posts in this forum has bought a gambling book that states "bonus bets are for suckers" in an attempt to sound smart and sell books. The reality of gambling is that ANY BET on a -EV game is for suckers.

But it just so happens that I'm a suckers sucker who plays bonus bets. And here's why.

1) The guy who won 130k or so in AC playing Carribian Stud was a sucker but he's 130 thousand dollars richer.

2) The guy who hit AA on his first hand of Hold em bonus took his 150 bucks (5 dollar bet) and bought a nice watch and had Prime rib and lobster for dinner.

3) The sucker who was dealt a royal in Let it ride took his 15k and bought a hyundai and paid off his credit cards.

4) The sucker who hit the 7 card straight flush in pai gow fortune bonus happened to be sitting next to 2 hot chicks and got a 3some going with his winnings.

5) The sucker who's playing 3 dollar min blackjack and playing 1 dollar luckyladies who get's that QQ of hearts and wins 4 paychecks in one hand.

You see what's going on here. The odds are those people are not you and will never EVER be you. BUT your still better off playing the bonus than the "pros" who say it's a sucker bet. And this is why.

1) Most people who play these -EV tables games do not gamble in a casino 3-4 days a week. If they do and they give you a line like "Its a sucker bet" look who it's coming from a guy who plays -EV games 3-4 days a week who is obv retarded for doing so.

2) People playing for fun might be paying a little bit more for playing that bonus but the exitement it generates sometimes on near misses and big hits far outweighs the few dollars spent on it in a day.

3) Some places that allow you to just play the bonus like 3 card poker are actually going to give you some playing time so you can get some drinks and have some fun.

How can anyone who call's themself a "smart gambler" and says that bonuses are sucker bets actually be sitting at the table with you playing a -EV game. ?????? It's retarded

One time in my life I would like to sit at a table with one of these twits saying it's a sucker bet hit a royal and lose 100 thousand dollars because they did not pay the little dollar.

-EV is -EV The only thing that should be taken into consideration when playing a -EV game is the entertainment value and hitting that AA or AK or a bonus hand in that holdem game definatly adds to the enjoyment.

At the least it gives you a chance of a big win other than griding one on on with the dealer for 2 hours and nothing to show for it.

[sonneti]

So you'd rather play a game that has 4 times the house edge because it has higher variance? (Texas holdem bonus has a 2% house edge the side bet bonus part of the game has an 8.5% house edge)

If you are in a casino you should try to play games that give you the most bang for your buck, playing games with a higher juice will only mean your money will disappear faster.

There are plenty of games with a low house edge and high variance (video poker is one). Simply put if you have two options of buying the same thing, one costs $20 and one costs $85 which one will you choose?

[maidenguy]

couple of days ago had a friend make around $500 with the bonus bets. No one else at the table hit any bonus bets except for one fellow who hit a small pair.Money will go alot faster when playing the bonus and not hit anything but if you do hit the bonus or a few of them then good money can be made. Is it woth it? For people who play the bonus, would the bet be the same amount , lower amount or higher amount then the ANTE bet? Like to hear some opinions.

[govman6767]

[ QUOTE ]
So you'd rather play a game that has 4 times the house edge because it has higher variance? (Texas holdem bonus has a 2% house edge the side bet bonus part of the game has an 8.5% house edge)

If you are in a casino you should try to play games that give you the most bang for your buck, playing games with a higher juice will only mean your money will disappear faster.

There are plenty of games with a low house edge and high variance (video poker is one). Simply put if you have two options of buying the same thing, one costs $20 and one costs $85 which one will you choose?

[/ QUOTE ]

Simply put if you have two options of buying the same thing, one costs $20 and one costs $85 which one will you choose?


Your not buying the same thing it's a shame you cannot see that.

Who plays -EV games

1) People who are seeking fun, excitement. (Majority) (Tourists)
2) Degenerate gamblers (The people you are talking about)

Tourists gamble why ?

1) Have fun
2) Win Big (bragging rights blah blah)

Tourists (That MAJORITY of people visiting casinos in Vegas and AC) Don't care about EV -EV +EV all they care about is fun, getting away from their job, blah blah.

What do we know about -EV Bonus bets
1) They eat up your bankroll faster
Who cares !!! Your typical tourist who goes to the casino maybe once or twice a year does not. I can guarentee you they get more enjoyment out of almost hitting the big one than losing an extra 50 bucks.

2) Big hits are fun
I think is awesome when people hit bonus bets even if it's 6 to 1 while they are stacking their chips and getting ready for the buffet with their winnings. Your local NEVER WIN grinder is bitching about how he played perfect strategy for 6 hours to be up 5 bucks.

3) Local nits ruin tourists fun not losing an extra 60 bucks What would piss off a tourist more losing 60 bucks on bonus bets or having some clown who thinks he can beat a -EV game telling him what a sucker he is for playing those suckerbets all night

The only AND ONLY people who should be concered about the EV involved in -EV games Bonus bets are Locals at cardrooms who are disillusioned enough to think they can beat a -EV game. By not playing bonus bets hopefully they will lose slow enough they can pay their rent and feed their familys.

Bonus bets serve 2 purposes

1) Make the casino more money
2) Give tourists a chance to win big or increase thier enjoyment of the game.

Everyone wins

The real losers are the one's who pay 20 dollars for a book on how to beat Let It Ride and stop playing the fun bonus because it will save them 20 dollars a day in the long run. (A sad long run because you know they should not be trying to beat this game everyday)

By the way I bought a gambling book because I wanted to know odds on games and the rules on how to play.
I play 'SUCKER BETS' because it's fun and I get more EV enjoyment than paying the extra vig it 'might cost me'

Poker, blackjack, horses, sports blah blah are games you should care about EV. Not games that cannot be beat just make the bets that give you the most enjoyment out of your bankroll.

In case you still dont' get it
[ QUOTE ]
Simply put if you have two options of buying the same thing, one costs $20 and one costs $85 which one will you choose?

[/ QUOTE ]

I take the 85 because I have a hell of a lot more fun for my money than the guy who wins 10 buck or loses 10 bucks

[sonneti]

I think we are rationalising things from a different perspective but I will try to explain what I mean.

Why are you playing a higher juice game when you can get the same variance from a lower juice game?

I'll give you an extreme example, what game will you choose here:

Game 1: Juice is 0.5% and you have a 1000/1 chance of winning $500

Game 2: Juice is 50% and you have a 1000/1 chance of winning $500

Maybe you would have more fun playing game 2, then I guess its your choice to play that game but you should realise it's crap value & you won't have as much chance as winning overall.

Casinos are stacked high with hundreds of different bets you can take, some obviously offer much more value than others. If you are willing to play the bets which offer the least value then your logic is flawed. If you are completely ignorant to the EV etc then that is excusable (ie tourists) otherwise it's not.

We agree playing in a casino is obviously -EV but I don't see the logic of pissing my money away like a firehose when a dribble will do exactly the same thing.

[playersare]

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone wins

[/ QUOTE ]
agreed. the bonus bets make the casinos more money, they build even bigger casinos which cater to all the "ite" players and completely price govman6767 out of the gambling market for good.

personal attack deleted