AT suited during 2/4 B&M session.. How bad did I play this ?

[buddy004]

I am low limit (2/4 limit) player trying to get better so I can move up.. I was wondering how y'all would have played this hand:

I am in BB a/ A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Somewhat loose table w/ 6-8 seeing the flop most times.

In this case, 5 callers to me in the BB. I check for a total of 6 SB in pot (I looked at SSHE when I got home and it states this was a raising hand)

Flop A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB checks, I check, 3 others check. Button bets $2. This guy is a pretty tight player and had to get up to look at the flop to make sure it was all clubs. I was pretty sure he flopped the flush.

Do I call here or just let top 2 pair go ?

I called. Turn was a blank. I check and he fires $4. Do I call here ?

I called..

River was a blank. I check and he fires $4. Do I call here or just let it go ?

Thanks for the input

[Allday Everyday]

I think you should have raised preflop with your big suited cards. Check if offsuit.

I would have value bet the flop. If you know the bet will come from LP if you check, I think a check-raise is good.

Turn and river get more complicated given your read of the guy having a flush. Looks pretty easy to me without this read. But your didn't give details on the other player's action, pot size, etc...

[mrcunningham]

PF: On a table this loose, I'd probably raise this. I think you'd have equity.
F: Bet this. You're probably ahead, still have decent outs if not, and you don't want this checked through. If the guy is tight AND you think he's good, the button's range for betting is HUGE. Since you checked, I might raise here or wait for turn to raise a non club.
T: If you called, I would raise here and call if 3-bet hoping to fill up.
River: Call in this big pot, unless you know that he is really weak.
T:

[StrictlyStrategy]

Whoa!


SSHE is going to say this is a raising hand. I'd probably raise it, but it's not like some tremendous leak.

Not trying to put you down at all, but until you patch some of your bigger holes playing it on the safe side preflop *with marginal decisions like this one* is going to help you. Just know that raising this is good.

You know, I think betting this flop is good.

You don't want the Jc to fold, and the K or Q is probably out. Everyone who's not drawing to a club is drawing to two outs for their win. So, since nobody will fold a middle-high club, I think a bet is good. It also gives you the opportunity to 3bet if someone raises.

I was going to say CR but if SB's calling with any club, so will other people, and since they're all drawing to the same hand, keeping one or five in doesn't change much.

It's also reasonably unlikely people will peel here with gutshots. Possible sure, but they're only really drawing to 3 outs that you might not notice anyways.

What's everyone else think? I like betting the flop and 3betting if it gets that far.

Even considering folding is impossible.

[Frond]

Velcome

Perfect raising hand for a 6-8 to the flop 2/4 game. Bet the flop and 3 bet sounds cyool.

[KitCloudkicker]

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Velcome

Perfect raising hand for a 6-8 to the flop 2/4 game. Bet the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

yessiree perfecto

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3 bet sounds cool

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eh, not so much....maybe a call and lead a blank turn, but i dont like a 3 bet so much.

[StrictlyStrategy]

Why?

[KitCloudkicker]

[ QUOTE ]
Why?

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this is pretty similar to the KJ hand in the medium stakes forum.

maybe this is my inner nit speaking, but on a monotone board, unless i hit a set, i dont like trying to pump up the pot until i get a better feel for what my hand value is on the turn.

i am aware that there is an argument here for 3 betting and trying to get it heads up with the raiser who may just have Kcx. however:

1) no club is folding to the 3 bet anyway. and this is irrelevant if the flop raiser has the Kc.

2) we dont really care if anyone calls with Ax, middle pair, etc.

3) in my experience on monotone flops, if someone raises the flop multiway, most people wont call w/o either top pair or a club (or both).

im sure theres other ways to play this. im sure other winning players like to 3 bet here. i just happen to be in a different camp.

now, what if you had a hand like AhKh here? WIth ATs, are our 4 boat outs (if we're in fact behind) enough to make us 3 bet with AT but call with AK (no club)? Or would be me more inclined to 3 bet AK because the hand is more vulnerable?

[KenProspero]

As stated by others, most would raise pre-flop.
Most would also raise the flop for value. If you're re-raised, you have a pretty good idea of where you stand.

This being said -- post flop.

You're in great shape if he doesn't, in fact have a flush. I don't know that looking at the cards proves a flush, but I wasn't at the table. What if he has two black cards, and had to remember what he had. Also, he may bet with any A, now that he's hit top pair.

Also, you have 4 outs to a full house -- which is basically, a one in six shot if you see it through to the river.

Ultimately, if you're positive he has a flush, you fold. I don't know that I'd ever be positive of that in a 2/4 game, though.

Otherwise, there's $16, in the pot, and it's going to cost you an additional $6 to see the turn and the river, and $10 to see the river. Given the combination of the shot of a full house and the fact that there's a pretty good chance you're actually ahead, I don't see how you fold here. Even on the river -- $24 in the pot (after the rake), and $4 to call, with with 6-1, you have to call.