Live 3/6, top set in a multiway pot on a [censored] board.

[johnnybeef]

Live 3/6 at a local card-room. This game is playing a little bit tighter than normal as there are usually about 4-5 to a flop as opposed to 6-7 that is the norm.

Relevant players: UTG; Huge donkey. Made a river call with Queen high that was good when another player bet into 4 people on a board of 47842. The best description that I can come up with about him is that he plays far too many hands, has no concept of position, makes a ton of fancy plays in horrendous spots and generally plays laggy post flop, but is more of a calling station preflop.

Button: Would probably be a winner if there were no rake taken from the game, but plays a few too many hands preflop. Post flop he doesn't bet his hands correctly which is probably due to the fact that he has been playing with these players for several years and may feel slightly bad extracting full value. Will raise big hands preflop, but is not overly tricky. He usually will not bet postflop unless he is somewhat strong.

I am in the CO and get dealt two black aces.

PF: 4 limpers to me, I raise, button cold calls, bb calls limpers all call.

Flop (16 SB) A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Checks to me, I check, button bets, UTG raises, all fold to me. I call two cold. Button calls.

Turn (11BB) 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

UTG checks, I check, button bets, utg folds, I call.

River (13BB - $5 in rake....so technically 12+BB) 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I check, button bets, I call.



How did I do?

[JJH3984]

wow your flop check is crazy bad.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
wow your flop check is crazy bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I value your opinion. Care to expand?

[JJH3984]

You have top set on a coordinated board. Against the table's ranges, your equity is far too large to let this check through (which will happen a lot given your read of the button). This hand is much different than JT's play along or n.s.'s hand (see: "I've never done this before") in Medium stakes. In those hands, Hero's equity is either razor thin or negative on scary boards in HUGE pots. Also the turn card will either increase their equity or destroy it completely. In situations like that, its okay to risk a free card for a better chance of winning a huge pot.

In your case, you probably have the best hand by a fair margin, and even if you don't, there is also no card that could come on the turn that will destroy your equity in the pot. Its better to play this straighforward and bet the flop.

Also if you do decide to check the flop, which I'm still pretty positive is a mistake, you MUST bet the turn. there isn't a much safer card than the 8 of spades.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]

You have top set on a coordinated board. Against the table's ranges, your equity is far too large to let this check through (which will happen a lot given your read of the button). This hand is much different than JT's play along or n.s.'s hand (see: "I've never done this before") in Medium stakes. In those hands, Hero's equity is either razor thin or negative on scary boards in HUGE pots. Also the turn card will either increase their equity or destroy it completely. In situations like that, its okay to risk a free card for a better chance of winning a huge pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright! This is what I was looking for. During the hand, my original thinking was to bet, but I knew that the pot was far too big to get anyone to fold even the smallest diamond. As such, I felt that I would be able to press a much bigger edge on the turn if the board paired, or a non threatening card came off on the turn. As such, I decided to check and re-evaluate the turn. I suppose the mistake that I made was not considering my overall equity against the rest of the table as even if I was behind I still had plenty of redraws.

Now, my thinking once the button bets and the co raises is that my hand is likely behind, but still very live. So, I can't fold, but putting a 3rd bet in would be asinine. As such, a call is the best play.


[ QUOTE ]
Also if you do decide to check the flop, which I'm still pretty positive is a mistake, you MUST bet the turn. there isn't a much safer card than the 8 of spades.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would tend to agree that this would be true if it were just a bet and a call, but given the bet and the check-raise, I am pretty sure that I am behind at this point.

[Maliant]

You are playing this hand wayyyy to scared, you are assuming you are beat on the flop and waiting for the board to pair, if you did check like you did you NEED to raise here and bet turn. But you should bet/3bet the flop. You should be leading again on the turn and if you checked like you just did you need to check/raise again. If you get raised after this you can slow down, dont be giving free cards and playing scared, you are attempting to give your opponents a chance to beat you..

[Yossarian147]

check calling top set all the way down makes baby jesus cry

[johnnybeef]

OK, so the consensus here is that my line absolutely blew. If I bet the flop, button likely raises, and I have no clue what utg does. Now, do you 3 bet or call here? Give me a plan for the turn if he calls, and if he caps.

[Maliant]

If he raises you smile and 3-bet then bet turn if he raises you after turn bet you can finally slow down.

[JJH3984]

Given your reads on Button, bet/threebet/lead turn (even if he caps). That said, there are times when you should c/c turn if they cap the flop. It depends on how passive your opponent is. If they are crazy passive, betting the turn unimproved after they cap can be bad.