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#1
02-23-2006, 12:06 PM
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Ruling Question
Hey guys a situation happened the other night at my home game and i was just curious what the official ruling of this would be. I dont remember the exact history of the hand but it was something like this. I had AK not alot of action after my preflop raise and the board was Q-10-10-4. The river brought another Queen and i checked as did my opponent who(visibly and verybally pissed)flipped his cards (JJ) and threw them into the muck pile misreading the board thinking that my 2 pair with the ace was a better hand than his. Since he threw his cards into the muck i didnt really even really look/think about it and started piling my chips when someone at the table pointed out that he had the better hand...Since it was only a friendly low buy-in game among friends i let him take it but what would be the correct ruling on this one?
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#3
02-23-2006, 02:38 PM
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Re: Ruling Question
I'm not 100% sure about this but I believe that once the cards touch the muck, either face up or face down, they are dead. I'll try to remember to ask the floor manager at the casino about this the next time I'm there.
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#4
02-23-2006, 02:55 PM
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Re: Ruling Question
According to Robert's Rules of Poker (definitely not the only ruleset out there, but a good one):
-------------------------------------------------- Dead Hands: 1.) Your hand is declared dead if: - (a) You fold or announced that you are folding when facing a bet or a raise. - (b) You throw your hand away in a forward motion causing another player to act behind you (even if not facing a bet). - (c)... (does not apply) - (d)... (does not apply) - (e)... (does not apply) - (f)... (does not apply) 2.) Cards thrown into the muck may be ruled dead. However, a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved and ruled live at management's discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. We will make an extra effort to rule a hand retrievable if it was folded as a result of incorrect information given to the player. 3.)... (does not apply) ------------------------------------------------ So, I guess you have to evaluate how it went down. Did he announce that he was folding? Did another player act behind him? (I don't think this applies since you were the only other player in the hand.) Was his hand easily identifiable in the muck? What did the "management" decide was in the "best interest of the game"? Overall, I'd say as long as he didn't say "fold", and his folded cards were obvious to everyone, the cards should speak for themselves...
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#5
02-23-2006, 04:15 PM
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Re: Ruling Question
[ QUOTE ]
a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved and ruled live at management's discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. [/ QUOTE ] This is the relevant rule here. It is most likely the case that you should have given up the pot.
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#6
02-24-2006, 11:08 AM
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Re: Ruling Question
In drunk home games, the correct ruling is to give the pot to the winner of the hand. People are going to do some stupid things that might not be the "correct ruling" but they also don't care about the "correct ruling".
If you are the host, you need to make the decision that is in the bst interest of the game, and that isn't screwing drunk friends for making mistakes. I would however enforce other rules that don't have such a huge impact (ie string betting). But I wouldn't try to screw a fridnd on a technicality.
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#7
02-24-2006, 11:11 AM
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Re: Ruling Question
[ QUOTE ]
Since it was only a friendly low buy-in game among friends i let him take it but what would be the correct ruling on this one? [/ QUOTE ] Technically, your pot. In a home game with looser atmosphere, give him the pot.
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#8
02-24-2006, 02:45 PM
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Re: Ruling Question
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not 100% sure about this but I believe that once the cards touch the muck, either face up or face down, they are dead. I'll try to remember to ask the floor manager at the casino about this the next time I'm there. [/ QUOTE ] The difference if the cards were flipped up AFTER they were already in the muck -OR- if they were flipped up on the WAY to the muck.
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#9
02-25-2006, 09:07 AM
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Re: Ruling Question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm not 100% sure about this but I believe that once the cards touch the muck, either face up or face down, they are dead. I'll try to remember to ask the floor manager at the casino about this the next time I'm there. [/ QUOTE ] The difference if the cards were flipped up AFTER they were already in the muck -OR- if they were flipped up on the WAY to the muck. [/ QUOTE ] The hand is dead simply because they were on their WAY to the muck. He announced his intention to muck and gave up his claim to the pot when he released the cards. Whether they were face up when they landed in the muck is irrelevant, he mucked them.
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