25NL - KK kinda strange spot

coordi · #1 07-05-2007, 06:22 PM

In the first hand, villain is boulaya. He used to buy in at .5/1 for 60 months ago, and he used to multitable 50NL. I have about 1k hands on him @ 9.1/1.6/7. My notes have his 3bet range at qq/kk/aa, and I looked at all my HH on him and never saw AK for a 3 bet. That said, the stats are 5+ months old and the games have changed drastically, so while I saw nothing on the couple of tables we were playing together to suggest he wasnt an uber nit still... who knows.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($8)
UTG+1 ($4.65)
MP1 ($45.60)
Hero ($24.65)
MP3 ($27.45)
CO ($15)
Button ($26.85)
SB ($24.75)
BB ($13)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises to $1, 2 folds, Button calls $1, SB raises to $3.5, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.50, Button folds.

Sometimes I will call with KK/AA against an agro ops 3bet pre to extract the most value. Also here I'm a little scared of AA.

Flop: ($8.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $4, Hero calls $4.

I was torn on calling and raising here. I think if I raise and he shoves there is no way I get away from this, so I decided to call down. Mabey get to SD cheap.

Turn: ($16.25) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $5, Hero ?

This turn is a little confusing for me. It makes it really unlikely he has AA now, and I really don't think AK is in he 3bet range. But he bets so small, I can't tell if he is milking the AAset, if he hit AK, or if hes scared with KK/QQ. What do you guys think? If I call, river blanks, and he shoves, what do you do then??

Steelerman · #2 07-05-2007, 06:43 PM

I've got this guy at 10/4 after a couple hundred hands. If you think he can 3-bet with QQ like you said in your notes then I think you need to 4-bet this.

RyanCMU · #3 07-05-2007, 07:17 PM

As played the turn is a fold, and I like your flop call.

GrandMelon · #4 07-05-2007, 07:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I've got this guy at 10/4 after a couple hundred hands. If you think he can 3-bet with QQ like you said in your notes then I think you need to 4-bet this.

[/ QUOTE ]

If villain is as nitty as OP said then 4 betting is bad. He'll fold everything you beat and shove AA.

As played flop call is good, as for turn Id probably call cause the price is so cheap but I think folding is ok too. If you call and he fires the river you can fold pretty safely me thinks.

Renton · #5 07-05-2007, 07:32 PM

yeah, ive been seeing 4 betting advice in other thread so I figured i'd interject with something.

In my opinion 4betting is generally bad in passive full ring games, regardless of your cards. Sure, vs aggressive players, there are places where 4betting needs to happen, but most of the time it just isn't very profitable.

OP, i'd raise the flop. You ain't getting to sd cheap... its a reraised pot. Just win monies vs AK and QQ. His bet is weak, most people would bet more with AA here. If you just call you give him a cheap card.

Renton · #6 07-05-2007, 07:33 PM

also i call the turn as played. I just don't allow people to make me fold to 1/3 pot bets. Maybe this is a leak?

Steelerman · #7 07-05-2007, 07:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, ive been seeing 4 betting advice in other thread so I figured i'd interject with something.

In my opinion 4betting is generally bad in passive full ring games, regardless of your cards. Sure, vs aggressive players, there are places where 4betting needs to happen, but most of the time it just isn't very profitable.

OP, i'd raise the flop. You ain't getting to sd cheap... its a reraised pot. Just win monies vs AK and QQ. His bet is weak, most people would bet more with AA here. If you just call you give him a cheap card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Renton, after you raise are you calling his push?

Renton · #8 07-05-2007, 07:53 PM

yes, of course

IcarusJam · #9 07-05-2007, 07:54 PM

I 3-bet pre, probably to 15, raise flop, probably a shove after the three bet.

coordi · #10 07-05-2007, 09:41 PM

So I called him down because after the ace hit I felt I was either splitting or winning.

Coordi: calls $5
*** RIVER *** [4s 3d 8d Ac] [7h]
Boulaya: bets $12.25 and is all-in
Coordi: calls $12.15 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Boulaya: shows [Qh Qd] (a pair of Queens)
Coordi: shows [Ks Kc] (a pair of Kings)

After the hand I felt good because It seemed I had read the action so well, but after my session when I was going back through I thought this might be a spew normally.