don't know where i'm at

[aggie]

http://www.pokerhand.org/?1232646

do i want to get allin on this flop? have been playing with villian only 15 hands and he's played just about every pot but that is all i really know.....when he raises me i assume he has a straight and if it is a naked straight i have him crushed. of course, i could be in really bad shape....Do y'all lead out here or just check call the flop?

[Slap My Jack]

Changed my post, just woke up and didn't notice that the straight was possible.

Getting this action he probably has a straight (or higher set).

You also have the flush redraws which give you a lot of equity if he doesn't have better flush redraws + top set/straight.

Run some equity analysis with one of the simulators plugging in various hands to get a feel for where your hand stands against the worst (top set + FD, straight + FD) and what will likely be the most common hands (naked straight no/weak redraws).

[wazz]

Raise preflop

Yeah, you want to get this all-in. You have 3 hands: a gutshot, a flush draw, and a set, and usually 2 out of the 3 are live, even if the gutshot is only for a split.

You don't have a naked straight crushed, though, you're only 65-35. As it turns out, this is what villain has (want to know how I know villain has Js 8c Td 4d ? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] ), and as it turns out, a lot of villains will play the flopped nut straight w/o redraws exactly like this.

[iggymcfly]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

Really not necessary here. He's still two off the button and there's no one limping in front of him that he's guaranteed to have position on. With a pair in my hand and only flush draw to clean up, I'm just limping this a lot of the time too.

As for postflop, looks pretty standard. You'd need a super nitty/passive villian that you were sure wouldn't raise this flop without a good redraw in order to make this a fold.

[wazz]

Well, I have strong feelings about openlimping. I always like to buy position and isolate the blinds, and pretty much only ever openlimp when I'm UTG or UTG+1 in a 9 or 10-handed game.

[iggymcfly]

Well, if you were really likely to "isolate the blinds" a lot, I suppose it would be beneficial, but I find the ranges for most players to limp behind and to call a raise are pretty similar. You're just going to be OOP a ton here with a hand that's not going to hit all that often and I think you're better off keeping the pot small.

Personally, I almost never raise preflop if I'm more than 3 off the button, and in the HJ and HJ+1, I limp about as often as I raise. I think the "never open-limp" is kind of a NLHE thing where you expect to have a significant edge on the field with your starting hand just by the mere fact that you're playing. In PLO, there's no point to raising preflop unless it's to take advantage of position.

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
In PLO, there's no point to raising preflop unless it's to take advantage of position.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh dear.

[iggymcfly]

Well, there are exceptions. Maybe I didn't explain myself fully. I'll raise rundowns out of the blinds sometimes for deception and obviously, and I'll 3-bet double-suited aces in any position for value regardless of stack sizes.

However, the primary reason to raise preflop is to take advantage of position and if you're going to be OOP, there's no advantage to trying to build a bigger pot with T997.

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, there are exceptions. Maybe I didn't explain myself fully. I'll raise rundowns out of the blinds sometimes for deception and obviously, and I'll 3-bet double-suited aces in any position for value regardless of stack sizes.

However, the primary reason to raise preflop is to take advantage of position and if you're going to be OOP, there's no advantage to trying to build a bigger pot with T997.

[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to find the most powerful reason to raise preflop, is that the first bet you make after the flop is considered by most to be a continuation bet. Once you've 3 bet them on the flop, they find themselves all in with top 2 pair against your flopped top set.
I raise preflop simply so my first bet after the flop is completely disregarded as actually meaning I have a hand.

[donkeykong2]

hmm, isnt this the kind of hand where we are likely to flop the second best hand rather than our opponents floping big if we flop big?