Stupid stud8 spot....

[PokerJans]

The game is brand new but it is playing very fast on 3rd as you might imagine. The only hand I have played that has gone to show down I made what I thought was a bluff but it turns out it was a sick value bet with a lone pair of 4s. So I guess my image is fairly loose, gamb00lly, also short stacking this btw so people probably think I suck/tilty

7 Card Stud High-Low ($30/$60), Ante $5, Bring-In $10 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.67 SB)

Seat 4: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Seat 8: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (2.67 SB)

Seat 5: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets

5th Street - (2.33 BB)

Seat 5: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___

Here is something to think about...

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=2824034
pokenum -mc 500000 -7s8 8c 6d 6s 2d jc - ad 3c js 4h 7h
7-card Stud Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
6s Jc 8c 6d 2d 167358 369300 130700 0 33836 25595 0 0.554
Js 3c Ad 7h 4h 113536 130700 369300 0 243830 4150 0 0.446

I wanna fold because just calling down would make me feel gross. But I have the best hand here everytime...

6th and 7th are also moderately interesting so I will keep updating this if it is interesting at all...just been waaay too many Razz a ma tazzz hands lately so I thought I would post one.

[Alchemist]

I have to think calling is best. Raising seems a bit too spewy. I suppose you could rep a 4-card low + 4-flush by doing that although you might reraise that on 3rd. He sure is playing it like he has two babies down so your equity is probably at least as good as you have shown. Give him 73 down instead and you're only a couple more % points higher.

I think so much depends on what cards you each catch on 6th that your boards will dictate the action more than anything. With you showing 86 for a possible low draw and him A3, you'll have a hard time moving him off of just about anything.

[Alchemist]

I've thought about this a bit more. The way Villain played this hand I think puts him on a fairly narrow range. It seems he can't really have any better than what you've put him on at least (4-card low)--otherwise he wouldn't have checked 4th. He could also be betting simply since he caught a 3 which likely helped him and Hero bricked.

So based on the equity calcs, Hero should raise. Even if Villain has 42 down, we're basically even money (51.5/49.5). I guess it comes down to how much FE you think you have and what your tolerance for variance is.

[Phat Mack]

From the way 3rd street went down (bring in; fold; fold; raise with an ace), and villian's 4th street check/call, I don't think he has a thing that beats your 6s. I go into call-down unless things develop otherwise on later streets. I can't find the fold on 5th.

[HOWMANY]

[ QUOTE ]
From the way 3rd street went down (bring in; fold; fold; raise with an ace), and villian's 4th street check/call, I don't think he has a thing that beats your 6s. I go into call-down unless things develop otherwise on later streets. I can't find the fold on 5th.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree. I wouldn't even be surprised if villain had only a 3low or pair of 3s that was like a 3flush on 4th. If I was confident in playing an imaginative game of Stud 8 like I am Holdem I would probably raise here, and depending on who the villain was I would then probably 4bet them if they 3bet (and I guarantee that a few of the regulars will) because it's impossible for them to have anything that beats us. I'm a nit though so just call down.

Also depending on who villain is I might 2bet third if he's the type that will fold to reraise with random steals, most won't and are probably right not to. If he's going to stick to you like glue and make it hard to play this not very premium hand then I call.

[2461Badugi]

This seems like a slightly ahead or way behind spot. And you're right that you're slightly ahead a whole lot of the time here (85%?), but when you're way behind you're going to pay for it, and when you're slightly ahead you'll have a hard time making money. It sucks to fold the best hand, but you pretty much have to in this spot.

Even shorthanded, it sucks being up against an ace.

[SweetLuckyMe]

You have an equity edge there literally every time. Folding in that spot is not an option. Bet and raise every time you have a figurable equity edge (even if it's tiny) to maximize your earn. Else you turn into a nut peddler and get run over by anyone and everyone that realizes that this game is ultimately a battle for the antes and knows how to use an ace upcard.

[Andy B]

Personally, I fold here because I have no idea how to play a hand like this. It's true that you have an equity edge now, but your hand isn't going to play very well from here out. I'm pretty sure that folding is the best choice for me. You mike l. types who know how to play trash hands can have at it.

[PokerJans]

I do think each one of you has brought up good points. From a playability perspective our hand is not too good. We do however have the best hand. Raising seems a bit too spewy for me and folding is way too weak. Calling seems to be the best option here, mostly because I really would hate to be three-bet. The pot is also rather small so re-evaluating on sixth seems like a good plan to me.

A year ago I probably would have just folded here but I am starting to put myself in some ultra thin spots like this lately and it seems to be working out well. The numbers obviously dont lie so its clear there is value in hands like this one. But I am running insano hot lately so only time will tell.

7 Card Stud High-Low ($30/$60), Ante $5, Bring-In $10 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.67 SB)

Seat 4: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Seat 8: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (2.67 SB)

Seat 5: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets

5th Street - (2.33 BB)

Seat 5: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (4.33 BB)

Seat 5: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks

River - (4.33 BB)

Seat 5: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___bets
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

Total pot: (6.33 BB)

Results (in white):<font color="white">

Total pot $380 | Rake $2

Seat 5: [Qc 6d Ad Jc 3s 8d Kh] (HI: high card Ace)

Hero: [2s 6s 8h 6c Jh 7c 7d] (HI: two pair, Sevens and Sixes)

</font>

So on 6th I am not too sure what I was thinking. Pretty huge brain fart there. Its a clear value bet looking back on how things went down. It just totally threw me off guard because I would expect a bet from him every time here. If I would have thought about it for more than 2 seconds I would have figured it out and just bet the thing.

Then I also dropped the ball on the river. Seems like an easy value raise. I would probably have gotten paid off by his actual hand, pair of treys, almost anything he would bet because his mind set would probably be 'OMG he probably just has a low'. If he has a low we chop and wont be able to three bet, the only hands he can three bet with are flushes or weird straight but that is super unlikely IMO.

Oh well - time to go shoot some guns out in the desert and drink some brewski's. Happy 4th o July!

[Phat Mack]

[ QUOTE ]
From a playability perspective our hand is not too good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure that I view Stud8 the right way, in fact I'm sure that I don't, but while our hand may not be playable, or situation is playable--we've got an unseen pair with what looks like a low draw against a guy who appears to be woofing with an ace. A playable hand is a strong hand, which we don't have, but I don't think the situation is all that bad.

[ QUOTE ]
So on 6th I am not too sure what I was thinking. Pretty huge brain fart there. Its a clear value bet...

[/ QUOTE ]

Gotta agree with you here. You need to bet. If you do, you probably won't have him leading into you on 7th, but that may not be such a bad thing.

jmo