Instances of WA/WB

[soma_]

Inspired by the recent discussion in the "Becoming a better poker player" post, I'm going to try collecting some set plays to help out the microlimiters. Maybe, with enough help, we can get a good collection going to tack on to the FAQ.

So let's start here. If you know of a hand you think is a good example of a way ahead or way behind situation, link me to it here. Let's focus on posts with detailed analysis, preferrably regarding why this situation is a WA/WB, or what the best line is to take and why.

[Aaron W.]

I'm not going to post a hand here, but I think it's important for some of the newer people to know what WA/WB actually means.

WA/WB means "Way ahead/Way behind". Situations like this come up when you have a good hand, but the situation seems to indicate that you might be in trouble. The idea behind the line is that you want to extract the most out of your opponent when you are ahead (usually by encouraging him to bet his weaker hand) and lose the least when you're behind (usually by not raising).

I usually take WA to mean that my opponent has no more than 5 outs against me, and WB to mean I have no more than 5 outs to catch up.

The following examples are NOT WA/WB:
1) Flush draws -- You generally have no chance of being WA when you're drawing to a flush and you've got tons of outs.
2) Weak draws -- You're not going to be WA.
3) Sets -- Even if the flop is coordinated, you shouldn't worry about WB
4) Multi-way pots -- If you have a strong hand in a multi-way pot, you should be more interested in protecting it rather than worrying about extracting money. By playing a strong hand in a multi-way pot passively, you usually offer good odds for those other players to draw out on you, which loses an entire pot.
5) Against loose passive predictable players -- Passive predictable players rarely bet into you when you're way ahead (not to say it never happens). Use WA/WB sparingly in this case.

The following examples MIGHT be WA/WB (I think it would be good for someone to search their HH to find examples similar to these to open a discussion):
1) AQ on an AT7 board capped preflop 3-handed against a TAG and a LAG
2) KK on a JT9 board and a rock is betting into you.
3) AJ on a KJ5 board against a LAG who bluffs a lot.

I hope this helps to get the discussion rolling. And I welcome discussion of my definition of WA/WB, because this is something that has never been brought out in detail around here.

[SlantNGo]

The best applications for WA/WB are usually when there is a lot of pre-flop action. When villain 3-bets or caps pre-flop, you can put him on a much smaller range of hands. You want to apply WA/WB when your hand is ahead of and behind about an equal number of hands from the range you've put him on, in terms of combinations (i.e. AK is almost 3 times as likely as AA). I won't give any specific examples, but let's say villian's range is AA/KK/QQ/AK, and you're ahead of AA/KK/QQ. Usually, you should apply WA/WB here in a heads-up pot because the likelihood in terms of combinations of AA/KK/QQ is almost the same as AK.

[A_C_Slater]

I remember a good example being having AK on a A88 flop and there is bet in front of you and someone waiting to act behind you.

[car ramrod]

I remember a post a month or two ago, Entity may have started it, if not, he suggested the line check/call, check/call, bet.
The point being to spend as little if we are behind and get the most if we are ahead. I use it sometimes and I think it works great.
The case for it I believe is like mentioned by AC, slant, and Aaron. We have AQ, raise pf, then get 3bet or capped. Then the flop comes AJ3. We could be WA or WB. This is the way it was explained to me, so if anyone wants to elaborate....

If someone has that post, or knows the one I mean, I think that is a good thing to add.

[cold_cash]

If I remember there was a good one in the first set of btspider's avalanche of 6-max hands.

[Shillx]

Here is a list of "set plays" that I use. I would be more then happy to give outlines and provide examples for each.

1) Bet-bet-bet
2) Bet-c/r-bet (WA/WB line)
3) Bet-bet-c/r
4) c/c-c/c-bet (Classic WA/WB)
5) c/r-bet-bet
6) c/c-c/r-bet (mainly in blind defense when top pair aces or kings)
7) bet/call-bet-bet (as opposted to 3-betting the flop)
8) Call-call-call (WA/WB line when you have position and a weak hand)
9) Call-call-raise (WA/WB line when you have position and a strong hand)
10) Call-check-call (bluff inducing)
11) Call-raise-check (bluff stopping)
12) C/c-bet-bet (WA/WB special line)

There are other ones too line when you should call-reraise on a certain street (with a flush draw for example). This is all I can think of right now. Here is a classic check/call - check/call - bet/...

Hero holds A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG

Hero raises, 2 folds, MP1 reraises, all fold to hero who calls.

Flop (2 players, 7 SB): A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls.

Turn (2 Players, 4.5 BB): 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls.

River (2 Players, 6.5 BB): 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero bets...

Brad

[istewart]

That's sexy.

[davelin]

One of my posts

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]

1) Bet-bet-bet
2) Bet-c/r-bet (WA/WB line)
3) Bet-bet-c/r
4) c/c-c/c-bet (Classic WA/WB)
5) c/r-bet-bet
6) c/c-c/r-bet (mainly in blind defense when top pair aces or kings)
7) bet/call-bet-bet (as opposted to 3-betting the flop)
8) Call-call-call (WA/WB line when you have position and a weak hand)
9) Call-call-raise (WA/WB line when you have position and a strong hand)
10) Call-check-call (bluff inducing)
11) Call-raise-check (bluff stopping)


[/ QUOTE ]

This is really cool as I don't think I've used most of these - I would love to see more examples of this.

What it looks like to me:

1) when you are ahead or playing against a calling station.
2) I'm not really sure?
3) against a tag opponent who you know will bet when checked to on the river (I think there was an example yesterday about this where the tag had kings and the hero had aces).
4) like you said - classic wa/wb.
5) is against a preflop raiser or aggressive player when you hit a hand like two pair.
6) you specify.
7) you are waiting for a safe turn card.
8) against an aggressive player with tpwk or something along thoselines?
9) makes perfect sense to me.
10) is this call-check-call-check-raise or call-check-call-bet or depending on the opponent?
11) Free showdown.