NL200 AK TPTK vs shortish stack

blunty31 · #1 06-29-2007, 05:53 PM

Also was the raise on the flop good or just call it?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP2 ($185)
CO ($195)
Button ($418.05)
Hero ($323.35)
BB ($90.40)
UTG ($210.25)
UTG+1 ($110.20)
MP1 ($209)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $4, 4 folds, Hero raises to $14, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $10.

Flop: ($30) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $15, Hero raises to $40, UTG+1 raises to $96.2, Hero calls ?

GrandMelon · #2 06-29-2007, 05:58 PM

Raise a little more preflop. As played I dont know why you are c/r this flop, no worse hands are calling. Id just b/f for like 22.

Raised2Win · #3 06-29-2007, 06:21 PM

Sir, check raising this flop is horrible. Check call or lead yourself.

Now that we are in this mess, we are going with it.

add: check raising this flop isnt horrible if you know your opponent is batsh1t insane, but if u do know that then u wont be folding and there would be no question. U need to think your lines through before u make them. Always one move ahead. Dont raise and go 'what about now' before u raise u have to know what to do when villain does A or B.

Warren Harding · #4 06-29-2007, 07:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Also was the raise on the flop good or just call it?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP2 ($185)
CO ($195)
Button ($418.05)
Hero ($323.35)
BB ($90.40)
UTG ($210.25)
UTG+1 ($110.20)
MP1 ($209)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $4, 4 folds, Hero raises to $14, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $10.

Flop: ($30) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $15, Hero raises to $40, UTG+1 raises to $96.2, Hero calls ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why CR? The risk:reward of a CR seems poor compared to leading and folding to heat, even if UTG+1 will have and bet(-fold) hands like ATs and 77. That flop is pretty bad as you just lost the lead to a lot of Ax, while most hands you beat will fold and sets are planning how to get your stack in.

As played, fold. I would give the unknown UTG+1 a range of TT+ AJ+, which sucks. It still sucks if you add KQ and 99.

I like bet-folding the flop. I'm hesitant though because I do not see worse hands that call. The alternative is to check-call, but what if he PSB? Can we profitably call that? c-c to 1/2 PSB but c-f to a PSB seems so weak. What do we do instead of CR and why?

SABR42 · #5 06-29-2007, 07:52 PM

I don't understand the C/R either. I think it's awful.

I like C/C flop.

As played, fold. You're going to need a T to win this pot.

Raised2Win · #6 06-29-2007, 08:03 PM

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As played, fold. You're going to need a T to win this pot.

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I think thats worse u can play this hand. U are getting 3-1, if the guy has AQ, AJ or QJ (which he does have VERY often) u have plenty of outs + times he has AT/AX/KQ or other random things u definetly should not fold.

SABR42 · #7 06-29-2007, 08:07 PM

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As played, fold. You're going to need a T to win this pot.

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I think thats worse u can play this hand. U are getting 3-1, if the guy has AQ, AJ or QJ (which he does have VERY often) u have plenty of outs + times he has AT/AX/KQ or other random things u definetly should not fold.

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No way. Look at hero's line again.

Hero check-raised the flop after 3-betting, yet villain 3-bets the flop anyway.

If villain has AQ he HAS to be very concerned here. Villain has AA or QQ 95% of the time here. Hitting the K will only be a trap card to lose more money.

EDIT: I missed that villain is a shortstack. For some reason I thought he was much deeper. This makes it a lot closer, since shortstacks are generally terrible. I think it's close now, but leaning toward a fold still.

Warren Harding · #8 06-29-2007, 08:11 PM

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As played, fold. You're going to need a T to win this pot.

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I think thats worse u can play this hand. U are getting 3-1, if the guy has AQ, AJ or QJ (which he does have VERY often) u have plenty of outs + times he has AT/AX/KQ or other random things u definetly should not fold.

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Villain is playing to get his whole stack at a time when hero is showing excessive strength. 3.5:1 odds is not going toinduce me to draw to a T, and I do not think we are ahead here or have more outs than that very often.

1000!

EDIT: just read SABR's post, and I made the same mistake. When I said villain was trying to get his stack in, I was thinking of $323 worth. Still, we're getting 3.5:1 odds and crushed

Raised2Win · #9 06-29-2007, 08:30 PM

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If villain has AQ he HAS to be very concerned here. Villain has AA or QQ 95% of the time here. Hitting the K will only be a trap card to lose more money.

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Why would any reasonbale villain do anything else but push this flop with AQ being 50bb deep after 3betted preflop. And then we have the none reasonable villains who are not going to fold AJ/QJ here ever. and after that we have the maniacs.

Villain has AA or QQ 95% of the time here.? I mean c'mon u know this is not true even close. He has AA or QQ less than 15% of the time 50BB dont slowplay QQ's preflop very often or min raise them and to talk about him having AA.. oh please.

SABR42 · #10 06-29-2007, 08:32 PM

I mis-read stack sizes the first time. I did say it's much closer, but I'm still leaning towards a fold because you're behind way too often.