200NL Got top pair

modnareno · #1 06-29-2007, 05:05 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG+1 ($302.10)
MP1 ($211.75)
MP2 ($209.30)
Hero ($237.10)
Button ($109.55)
SB ($223)
BB ($77.30)
UTG ($113.30)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, Hero raises to $8, 2 folds, BB calls $6.

Flop: ($17) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $9, BB calls $9.

Turn: ($35) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $23, BB calls $23.

River: ($81) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $54, BB calls $37.30 (All-In).

Anyone have any different lines? Is this a good flop not to cbet?

Raised2Win · #2 06-29-2007, 05:13 PM

Im not really sure about the river. I think checking behind is better If I dont know for sure the guy is going to call me with alot less than Q8.

Hklm8383 · #3 06-29-2007, 05:16 PM

i check river and i hope he check back because i think they show up with a8 a lot there

modnareno · #4 06-29-2007, 05:23 PM

It felt like the river was too thin, but he only had a half pot bet left and i figured he would have bet if he had me beat. He showed up with KJ this time, meh.

Jeff76 · #5 06-29-2007, 05:38 PM

I think the river bet is too thin. That being said, I really, really want to get better at river play, so if this is a good thin bet, I'd love to hear perspectives on what hands we are getting value from.

I probably checked the turn too.

moldman · #6 06-29-2007, 05:39 PM

I'd likely check turn to keep pot smallish once he called the flop bet, then also check/call river (or check/fold even).

Raised2Win · #7 06-29-2007, 05:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the river bet is too thin. That being said, I really, really want to get better at river play, so if this is a good thin bet, I'd love to hear perspectives on what hands we are getting value from.

I probably checked the turn too.

[/ QUOTE ]

easy shove with A8 or 99. Q8 is super close. We get value from 87 and 89 most. Maybe A4, 77,66 and so on. Idiot AQ, AK, AT. The more I think about it less I hate the river bet, i dont think its actually that bad against bad players.

KurtSF · #8 06-29-2007, 05:58 PM

Was this just a pure blindsteal? I'd rather play 78 or QT here, and, even though its sooooooted, I'm not a fan of Q8. If its a steal, what reads do you have on BB?

Flop line is solid. (1) If preflop was a straight bluff, you shouldn't give up on it now. (2) You have a rather strong hand and should bet it even if it wasn't a c-bet, both for value and protection.

I check the turn behind. It basically turns my hand faceup (one pair, lower than jacks), but it also allows me to call many river bets from BB (since I'm near the top of that range and an agro opponent will often make a bluff on the river due to my display of weakness). I am a showdown monkey, so don't take this as gospel, I'm not as aggressive as your average 2+2er and probably showdown too often, but that would be my goal on this turn. Since you're asking about alternate lines and all.

That said, the bet on the turn is fine. There is a very good chance you were ahead on the flop, and its most likely that jack didn't help him, so you're good to bet this here.

But if you bet the turn you need to check behind the river. You've played the hand well so far, its time to show down. Don't "turn your hand into a bluff" or "spew" or make a bet "only better hands can call". Just check behind and don't get fancy. (If you check behind the turn and he checks river again, you can valuebet.)

KurtSF · #9 06-29-2007, 06:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd likely check turn to keep pot smallish once he called the flop bet, then also check/call river (or check/fold even).

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. To extend on my previous post, once you check behind the turn the decision to check, call, fold, or b/f would be decided based on your opponent, on his bet, and on the river card. I wanted to check turn and to bet river based on the 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] that came, about as innocuous as can be (only completing a gutshot).

Klompy · #10 06-29-2007, 06:05 PM

I think there's a few people who have to reread this hand, we're in position. We don't have to check/call a river.

oh, and hand is fine as long as we check the river behind.